To warn you about the dangers of practising mindfulness

[theymademejoin]

I brought the dogs for a walk in the woods yesterday. Decided to take the nice, smooth gravel path rather than one of the mud tracks, as it had been raining the previous day.

I had been reading about how you can practise mindfulness anywhere. Just be in the moment. Absorb with your senses. So, as the path was nice and smooth, with no roots or holes to trip me up, I decided to give it a go.

I wandered along, really seeing the dappled sunlight filtering through the treetops, really hearing the swoosh of the gentle breeze as it rustled through the leaves, really smelling the earthy fragrance of the loamy, damp, undergrowth when.........

Splash! I had wandered from the centre of the path into an ankle-deep, crater filled with mucky water at the side of the path. And best of all, I was about 30 minutes away from the car at this stage.

I was bloody mindful on the walk back. Mindful of the squelchy, squishy, horribleness that was my shoe. I think I'll stick to my normal heedless tramp through the woods in future. Or maybe wear wellies.

Any other tales of mindfulness gone wrong?

How on earth would 'noticing your breathing and how your body feels' help with pain?! Surely that's exactly when you need to be distracted! Practicing mindfulness when in pain must exacerbate anxiety and depression 😯

I have reservations about this approach being rolled out as a formal intervention for mental health difficulties.

In the past I have used such approaches for myself effectively with subjective good results but as we know this is not sufficient to justify expensive interventions. Unfortunately, there is minimal evidence to support the broad delivery of this type of intervention over many other everyday activities.

In addition, I fear that there could be some negative outcomes. Negative consequences from mindfulness techniques have been documented including dissociation and there is the danger of a sense of "failure" for some.

Taking a broader critical stance there are wider political questions. I would assert that there is already too much pressure on already stressed individuals to make personal changes and "cope" with external factors over which they have no control and if professionals take an an uncritical perspective on the social conditions that have led to mental health difficulties they are in danger of exacerbating these difficulties.

I have reservations about this approach being rolled out as a formal intervention for mental health difficulties

Absolutely.

Hmmm, mindfulness for pain. What a load of bollocks. I'm very aware that my right lower back is in so much pain I had to take tramadol. I've been doing yoga for over 20 years, though, so I'll do some poses for this. In fact, when this whole 'mindfulness' came along the first thing I thought was, 'Who made this up?'

I agree, try a tai chi or yoga class instead, OP.

'Mindfulness' seems to be the new buzz word. Why? It's something we have done since time began.. observing the world around us and learning from it. Oh.. let me guess.. someone found a new word for it and a way to extract money from the idea!

Utter rubbish ;)

It's a multi million pound industry selling wellness... works well for some, does very little for others. Def not a panacea!

m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/has-mindfulness-lost-its-mind-35365751.html

I have a mental illness. I was referred to go to mindfulness classes. I also have a spine condition. I can say mindfullness is not helping me. I find it hard to just be in the moment and honestly I thought the raisin thing was a lot of nonsense. (Also not a good thing to do with patients with eating disorders!)

It doesn't help with physical pain and all I'm finding it doing is telling me what I know already. But apparently according to my doctor because I find it difficult to be in the moment and sit in a chair for 30 minutes in a silent meditation that it means it's working 'because if I was enjoying it I wouldn't be doing it right"

Right...

I'm sure it works for some people and OP I hope you are okay. But I'm not convinced by it so far.

I

I had a hypnobirthing CD.
I found hypnobirthing pretty useful but lets be honest its all been nicked from well established therapies and repackaged.

Anyway this CD was narrated by a bloke from Essex/Edges of East London judging by his accent.
That, combined with his delivery, made the whole thing sound vaguely menacing.
Lie down, close your eyes, hands by your sides........

Plus I found it very hard to accept 'breeve fru the pain as you prepare to meet yer baybee' from a bloke.

Oh dear OP!!

My therapist is always wanting me to do mindfulness for my anxiety, I just tell her that I've been doing it but I can't, I just cannot hold my focus like that, my mind is always going a mile a minute except for occasionally when it goes completely blank and sometimes I even forget to breathe.

I think im too mindful. I enjoy beautiful things, sunset autum leaves the smell of coffee (not the taste).
I dont pay much attention to the news etc.....

I was in a cafe the other day, enjoying a relaxing coffee, when I saw a poster advertising a class for mindfulness.
For mothers and babies.
Babies? How will that work then? They are not aware of their sense of self yet, never mind focusing on the world around them.

'Ooh, I'm just focusing on the warm squidgy sensation in my nappy, now I'll never get stressed about having a poo ever again'

A load of hippy bollocks to rip off stressed out new parents.

I have had a weird experience with mindfulness- I can do it, in that I bought the book, practiced, and definitely go into an altered state of meditation/blankness, as well as mindful of what's around me (so thoughts slow down and stop). I started doing this a couple of times a day as recommended by the book, and felt very calm, decision-making easy, more centred- this would continue for about two weeks, then I'd have a huge meltdown, extremely angry, like a toddler! This has happened to me several times, so I've given up! I don't want to be overly calm and centred 95% of the time and a raging loon 5% of the time!

I prefer your everyday relaxation (Paul McKenna type guided or just the tense your muscle and relax it) stuff- really works for anxiety, as does eating regularly, drinking regularly (carry round water bottle), exercising or walking, sleeping regularly- basically living a boring life!

I don't say this to people in pain, though- I think this is one of the issues, that medics/doctors find it very hard to say to people with chronic illness/pain- there's not that much we can do for you, it's all a bit of an experiment, so they suggest all these programmes which they know don't have great success rates, or even pills (opiates don't have a good success rate at all and cause dependence). If you've ever seen Cathy Stannard speak on this, she is a chronic pain sufferer as well as a professor, she's brilliant.

It's not bollocks if you believe babies and children can sense negative or positive emotions from their parents.

DD2 is well known for her plain speaking. In a recent religion class teacher told the class they would be discussing and practising mindfulness. Cue DD2 telling the teacher that she was sick of mindfulness, it was nearly as bad as discussing emotions and could they do some work instead please.

Luckily, he understands that she wasn't being rude and so they decided to have a lesson around mindfulness and meditation etc without practicing it.

WellThisIsShit
Just to say I will be thinking of you at your Pain Clinic today.
I have long term severe chronic pain and I find that PC's are of limited value, and variable in quality.
You can often leave feeling significantly worse then when you arrived, partly due to travel / an hour on an uncomfortable chair, partly due to the irritation that you are 'not better' yet and are failing to 'properly apply the technique' (whatever this seasons snake oil is) and therefore it is your fault you are not better yet.

'It's not bollocks if you believe babies and children can sense negative or positive emotions from their parents.'

And what's the problem with that? Human beings experience an array of emotions, it's a good lesson to learn that being human is a condition of many feelings and emotions than trying to force oneself to think one way or another all the time, which is just absolutely ridiculous.

'My therapist is always wanting me to do mindfulness for my anxiety, I just tell her that I've been doing it but I can't, I just cannot hold my focus like that, my mind is always going a mile a minute except for occasionally when it goes completely blank and sometimes I even forget to breathe.'

Just tell her you practise yoga and meditation daily Yoga was here before all this 'mindfulness' crap, as MrsD says, this is just repackaging of ancient practises.

I see what people mean about the commodification of mindfulness. But I still think that the basic principle of paying more attention to the present moment is something from which a hell of a lot of people could benefit.

When you look at the wise and kind things the Dalai Lama often says about life and suffering and how we can try to make the world a better place, he doesn't seem to be approaching this from a viewpoint which is feeling culturally misappropriated or commodified. He seems happy at the idea that the world might take what it needs from his religion/philosophy. You don't nevessarily need to be a Buddhist to apply some of the principles of Buddhism to your life.

I suppose maybe there are people and companies using Mindfulness cynically to make a quick buck out of apps etc without really believing in it though, and that's not great.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with emotions, but if the negative take over the positive to a persons detriment and something like Mindfulness may help (yes, taken from acient practices) then surely that's just common sense. If a parent with their child can have some peaceful and relaxing time together, what the heck is wrong with that. Then if it helps in their everyday life outside the class then fantastic. Like I said before, this can all be done at home with no money being spent. What is so bad in that. Sounds like a case of starting a fight for no good reason.

Blah

Wellies for mindfulness walks in the future. It sounds like it was lovely up until that point.

Does it count as mindfulness if you don't even notice that you are about to step into a giant puddle?

@TheFirstMrsDV - 'breeve fru the pain as you prepare to meet yer baybee' sounds brilliant. I used breathing that I had learned at an ante-natal yoga class for labour and found it fantastic. It meant I didn't need any drugs (disclaimer - I had quick, not terribly difficult labours so your mileage may vary).

@phoenix1973 - I enjoy beautiful things, sunset autum leaves the smell of coffee (not the taste). That's exactly my type of mindfulness

@Summerswallow - that all sounds a bit scary. It's like it just covers up the normal negative bits, which eventually explode. I also agree with you re everyday relaxation. I think that is good for most people, provided you accept it for what it is - something to slow you down and relax a bit, rather than a panacea for all life's ills.

The danger of seeing anything as a panacea is that people will feel it's their fault if it doesn't work (and I've yet to meet anyone for whom mindfulness has helped with chronic pain; not saying it can't, just I've never met anyone). That can end up making them feel worse.

@PeaceAndLove1 - nothing wrong with it if it helps people to relax and get more out of life. The main problem is with the commodification of it and the pushing of it as a panacea for all life's ills. It is a tool that is helpful to some people in some circumstances. I do think most people can benefit from practising a very loose type of mindfulness - a bit more being in the moment and focussing on the positive.

I think the point @Eolian makes re the Dalai Lama is important. However, like many other things, it can become a religion that people then take to extremes of evangelicalism. That is when it becomes a problem.

@Mustang27 - it was lovely up until then

@Ttbb - it was mindfulness in the sense that I was being aware of something. Not mindfulness in the sense that I was aware of everything around me. It was meant to be a light hearted discussion of my wet feet and my lack of observation, rather than a claim to be practising serious mindfulness . But that's the way discussions go!

its such an essential tool to some.please can we not take the piss out of something so seriously beneficial when done right.mindful walking is different.and ur noticing every step.yo uwould have noticed the puzzle.your head isn't mean to be off in the trees or whatever.
mindfulness is about the here and now.in an arugment don't get carried away with what if,when disaster happens don't blame yourself or feel the panic rise so much with thinking castrpohising and hurting in on yourself.see everything as it soccuring not letting the storytelling thoughts tak it away to think not involved in the actual situation.this can be vital for those suffering with stress.when you go from sutbbing your toe to think oh I'm an idiot so clumsy to I did this before to why cant I do anything right to the wolrd hates me.you simply think shit stubbed my toe.breathe.
hwen a situation can be bad but not your bad.
helping you to really comes back to your breathe right now when your having a panic attack.
to have compassion for yourself and everyone even at lifes toughest.
too see beauty but also see the shit and think ok that here right now let it be.you can run from crap you can only say hello ti it welcome it and then deal with it.

There have been studies that show mindfulness can be harmful for those who are grieving.

I would never have called what you describe kate mindfulness.
I think that is what winds people up.
Focusing on breathing is an ancient practice. It does work which is why it has endured as a technique.
People like Gwynnie P nicking it and re-selling it all as 'Mindfulness' deserves a piss take IMO.