To ask about your reaction to scarring from historic self harm?

[MrsMistoffilees]

I've name changed for this. I'm a newish but fairly regular poster (post penis beaker but pre CFNs)

My (female) DP used to self harm; hasn't for years but has some scarring on one of her arms. The scars look 'weathered' and are clearly old and faded; to be clear there are no scabs or open wounds etc, these are scars so old they have freckles on them.

My partner works in a field where a short-sleeved uniform is required, and has done so for many years. In spite of this she has never experienced any negative attention or comments about her scars.

However, a fairly new and senior member of staff has recently made various (and written) comments about her mental fitness to carry out her job. DP lives with anxiety, but this is not debilitative and is well-managed, and her mental health does not impact on her ability to do a high-pressure job.

My DP sees her scars as proof she survived a very traumatic episode in her life which is far in the past, but is aware this senior staff member is clearly judging her mental fitness on the scars, rather than her current performance. No concerns have been raised about DP'S work, btw, but senior staff member has implied that DP is mentally unwell and actively self harming despite a lack of evidence.

DP is now pursuing this through HR with the support of her union. But this evening she is very sad and angry about what she sees as discrimination and, well, injustice.

AIBU to ask you about how you react when you see historic self-injury scarring and if you feel senior staff member is justified in maligning DP's current mental health through the existence of these scars? Is this discrimination?
Many thanks.

Tedster77 - please don't be ashamed. Most people are nice and will just assume you went through a bad time. One in four people have mental health issues and I'm betting self harm is more common than people think. No one will realise you've been abused - they will only guess you went through something tough at some point.

I have a feeling that mental health issues can be seen as one of the protected characteristics in the workplace - under disability - and so even if it was a current set of self harm scars, the senior member of staff is on very thin ice raising it. This could easily be seen as bullying/harrassment, and the employer might take this quite seriously.

The colleague interfering may be (quite rightly) seen as the problem.

I totally empathise with this. I have incredibly bad scars on both of my arms. I have had people actively try and make me feel awkward about them at work in the past, I generally get the sense they are the kind of people who are a bit childish and can't just ignore things. Self harm is a taboo subject - scars make some people feel uncomfortable and they will all handle that in different ways.
That being said, it doesn't excuse their behaviour, and this is definitely harassment.

sparkle The other posters were acknowledging the emo scene circa 2007. I knew it very well. Teens would cut themselves to make scars because part of the sub culture was about being depressed tortured souls. The comments werent designed to upset the OP or disminish other peoples Self harm.

Thank you Jam Pasty that's a lovely post

Speaking as someone without SH scars.

The comments your DP is receiving are unprofessional, unpleasant and should be taken to HR. Her body is not the business of her colleague.

To me they are no different from any other scar, they show there has been some trauma, sometimes that's physical trauma (op scars, injury wounds) sometimes it's psychological trauma. Either way, none of my business unless the owner of the scars tells me about them.

Honestly I wouldn't even notice them.

Tedster77 no problem! Good on you for getting through it all!

Martha
I'm 26, people would probably assume that's why I have scars. You say you/other people's remarks were not meant to deminish "other people's" self harm but how the hell would you or anyone else know why people self harm(ed) and why would you treat one type of SH scar any differently to another type?
If someone was disturbed enough to do that to themselves as a trend, they obviously had their own issues, and regardless of how they got their scars they have to live with them now, 10 years later.

I really hope people wouldn't react to people differently based on the way they think someone ended up with a self harm scar.

Initially, when I first saw someone with self-harm scars I didn't actually know what they were, and was a bit shocked. At the time, they weren't commonly on display and I couldn't quite make sense of them. Now I've seen the odd person over the years with them and also worked with someone in a therapeutic capacity with very visible (and current) self-harm scars which present a slightly different issue. But faded, old self-harm scars- this colleague is just barking completely up the wrong tree and I think is being discriminatory, and the union may well be able to help.

I can't believe her. How awful for your dp.

I hope she's sacked.

Some people are so insensitive especially when it comes to mental illness

There's a team manager at my work who is the nicest, most helpful, pragmatic, brilliant colleague who has scars from the top of her arms to her wrists. She always wears temperature appropriate clothing so it's been a summer of short sleeves. Does it affect my perception of her capability? Shame on me for wondering for a couple of days how someone who self harmed would put herself in such a challenging role. They're old scars and she's perfect for the role! Often those who have overcome difficulties are the most empathetic people to help others. I quickly changed my view when I saw how great she is. And really who am I to judge if someone else decided she was fit for the role?

Your DP should continue to be good at her job and follow the route she's following. Yes I judged but I've learnt my lesson. Here's hoping her senior colleague will learn too.

I would think that
a) it's none of my business
b) this person has had a tough time but is clearly managing and would not be doing whatever it is she is doing if she were in any way unfit or incompetent

Absolutely an HR issue. Totally unacceptable.

And- of course you cannot tell anything about someone's current state of mind from old self-harm scars. I know quite a few exceptionally stable centred individual with historic scars, it's just irrelevant to the current state of affairs, although my guess is the colleague won't say it's the scars that has prejudiced her/him, but something else, so be prepared for that (as they will know that objectively they shouldn't have judged).

Well, I have to be honest, I find it really interesting, to care so much, and feel so much is much more an indication to me of an interesting thoughtful person than almost any other characteristic.

I would have no worries about managing someone with high conscientiousness, deep, even traumatic insight and ability to front it the fuck out.

All power to the interesting..

I have scars along my inside arm and forearm, I have never had anyone react particularly negatively. I've only ever had one person ask about them and it turned out to be a very teachable moment as she was a tiny bit judgey, turned out her DD was going through an awful time and had begun to self harm.

I haven't self harmed in years, I absolutely do not cover them. I am incredibly proud of my scars, they show me I am stronger than I think, they show me how far I've come, and the fact that I've no fresh scars shows me how much I am loved by my DH who has bandaged me up in the past and showed me nothing but love and hope.

Your DP's colleague is an arse, would they comment on a scar from surgery or an obvious illness? Your DP has a right to show her scars without any judgement and especially without discrimination, she absolutely needs to peruse it with HR as it most certainly is discrimination

Aw, give your DP an unmumsnetty hug from me. If I saw old self-harm scars on meeting someone for the first time, I'd feel sorry for the much younger person who'd suffered so much emotional pain, and respect and admiration for the grown up person in front of me who'd managed to come through the other side of it and live and thrive after initial adversity. But I'd have enough tact not to mention it. Then, as others have said, as I got to know them better, it would just become a feature of them that I no longer noticed, because they were them, a person I knew on a whole number of levels.

I agree: HR and union are the way to tackle this.

Quinnja I was merely pointing out what other posters meant by the emo scene of self harm. I didnt say I would assume thats how anyone got their scars.

I'm feeling a bit emotional reading all your lovely responses. Thank you so much, have a on me.

"Whether through self harm or external trauma, scars are represent what you have lived through and survived."

DarthMaiden's wise words say it all, IMO.

Best of luck to your DP; she obviously possesses a great deal of strength and determination (and a supportive partner).

I was sexually abused as a child and self harmed as a troubled teenager - that was 40ish years ago
I have very visible scars and have never covered them - it's very rare that anyone comments and if they do I just say that I had a bad few years growing up and leave it at that
I work in a very senior management role for a charity and would hope that people respect me for being honest about my mental health
My scars are part of me and along with my life experiences made me the empathic caring non judgemental person I am or try to be today

jace

Mine are old, too, and from an extremely difficult and unhappy period of my life. I was very shocked the first time I heard it referred to as a 'fashion' but some people do see it that way.

I keep mine covered at all times, to avoid negative judgements or comments, but I admire people who are able to wear short sleeves without feeling self-conscious. I think it's brave of them.

I have very visible scars on my arms (more so at the moment because they don't tan). In the twenty five years that |'ve had them, no-one has ever commented, apart from one small child. Go with the HR route, it's discrimination at best, bullyingt at worst.