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AIBU?

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Original poster

LIAR (TV drama)

25 replies

isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 11:00

DH and catch up on LIAR last night. ITV drama about a rape, both man and women insisting they are telling the truth. My DH said he was shocked that the police were treating the accused as he was guilty without listening to his side of the story. I said they would treat any other crime as if the victim of crime was telling the truth (and actually they treated the victim with suspicion the next time they questioned her). I said that most complainants don't make it up, most women don't report for fear of not being believed. He is now angry with me; what's the point of watching something if we can't discuss it, that I just want him to agree with me.

AIBU? I have an opinion and expressed it, like he did. He says I just want him to agree with me. But surely he just wants me to agree with him? I thought we were having a discussion, He said most men would be scared to have a one night stand incase they are accused of rape 😡 but surely you would only be accused of rape (on the whole) if there was no consent. As someone who has experienced rape I know I can get fired up by this (not unsurprisingly). He has stormed off to the DIY centre and said he doesn't want to watch it again.

OP posts:
Allthebestnamesareused · 17/09/2017 11:01

There is a whole discussion about this show on the TV section you might want to join in.

CosyFires · 17/09/2017 11:05

but surely you would only be accused of rape (on the whole) if there was no consent

That's nonsense. Women are just as capable as lying about rape as men are at comitting it.

A classic example is a woman who cheats on her boyfriend, panics and claims it to be rape.

CosyFires · 17/09/2017 11:06

I say that as a woman who was raped myself.

LEMtheoriginal · 17/09/2017 11:07

I think your Dh first point is valid to a degree. I don't think people accused of a crime should be treated any differently to another witness . BUT God knows how the police would get the truth out of people without applying pressure. I feel very strongly that accusations of any crime should not be in the public domain until a guilty verdict us delivered. Mud sticks sadly.

As for men not wanting ons for fear of a rape accusation - tell him to give his head a wobble

LEMtheoriginal · 17/09/2017 11:09

However your issue is about his insensitivity and inability to have a discussion in which someone disagrees.

Original poster
isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 11:10

Research shows that false accusations are actually really rare. Do you really think that women go in droves to report rape, having to go through being prodded and poked and examined because they regret it. Seriously. Do you know what it's like to experience this? Do you know just how many women don't report it because the fear they won't be believed? It's easier to believe these things don't happen on the scale they do, and people lie. Especially if it is your loved one that has been accused.

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Original poster
isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 11:12

I was saying that society as a whole believes men and not women; women make it up, but if a man says he has been raped/abused there is never any doubt that he is telling the truth. I can't believe his insensitivity either.

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x2boys · 17/09/2017 11:13

I agree with Lem my husband was charged with assault what he was accused of didn't happen I know because I was there ,because of the unusual circumstances there was a lot of media attention eventually it was resolved in court just prior to trial with the CPS accepting their main witness as unreliable and my husband was telling the truth but it should never have got that far the police were very biased.

CosyFires · 17/09/2017 11:13

Do you know just how many women don't report it because the fear they won't be believed?

I have been raped and didn't report it

kali110 · 17/09/2017 11:13

Women can certain lie, CosyFires stated, or revenge, it certainly does happen ( may not be often but doesnt make it less serious for those people).
I agree with lem completely regarding naming people.
You shouldn't be getting into
An argument over it though Smile

kali110 · 17/09/2017 11:16

Research shows that false accusations are actually really rare. Do you really think that women go in droves to report rape, having to go through being prodded and poked and examined because they regret it.
Yes, it isn't loads, but it does still happen and doesnt make it any less traumatic for those people and their families.

I don't think that's what liar will be like, i already have my views on it.

Original poster
isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 11:16

CosyFires. I'm so sorry. So you know how this feels, and you know the fear of not being believed. I spent years thinking I wouldn't be believed. My anger is at a society that doesn't believe women (or acknowledge the scale of the problem) and sees crimes against men as a more serious issue

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Original poster
isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 11:20

Kali10 yes I'm sure it's hugely traumatic for those falsely accused. It must be a living nightmare. My point is that it is rare and the the bigger issue is that rapists are getting away with it because it is hugely under reported. And I do not for one minute criticise women for not reporting rape. It is the hardest most personal decision someone in that situation has to face, but I feel strongly that police should start at a position of belief (like any other crime) and then investigate.

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LEMtheoriginal · 17/09/2017 11:20

That's interesting because I'm very aware that my default setting would be to believe the woman and I genuinely thought most would. I think as it is such a terrible thing to be accused of though and so many grey areas.

If a man has sex with a woman without consent it us rape. End of. But what if there was no explicit saying no. That the woman after the event things hang on one minute - this happened against my will but I couldn't articulate it? Not forced but no explicit yes? In the man's view she was ok with it but he is a fuckwit and didn't realise? The rape still happened but what if it wasn't intended? A woman shouldn't ever be in that position but I can see how easily things might go wrong

LaurieFairyCake · 17/09/2017 11:21

I've only seen the first episode (don't know if there's another) but I didn't see them as treating Gruffud as if he was guilty Confused They just asked questions.

Original poster
isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 11:23

Yes and I can see that too; frozen in fear, not saying no. And that's the debate. I think in the US they encourage people to ask if this is ok? But to throw a strop and go off to B&Q tHreatening not to watch it again.... I get that he struggles with what I've been through, but....

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Sallystyle · 17/09/2017 11:31

Enthusiastic consent is needed. An absence of the word 'no' is not necessarily consent as we know. That needs to be drummed into some people. I have drummed it into my teens and I have done that because of what LEM posted. I never want them to think that someone is consenting just because they didn't say no or push them away.

honeylulu · 17/09/2017 11:46

The premise of the programme seems to be that we (the viewers) don't know who is telling the truth.
Allegations have to be investigated. Yes that's "unfair" if the accused is innocent, I agree. But the point is that we don't know if he is or isnt yet (and neither do the fictional police.)
I presume there will be a flip side in the next episode though where the accused will be doubted and challenged - she has already alluded to a history of mental health issues and admits she just can't remember much of the incident. So that could also be seen as "unfair".
Plus there are shades of grey in between ... she might have said no in her head but not out loud and so he could genuinely have believed it was consensual. So they could both believe they are telling the truth.
It is an interesting exploration of these issues bearing in mind that the accused faces interrogation without the benefit of anonymity (harsh for innocent accused) BUT the rate for date rape convictions is very low (harsh for genuine accuser).

So you're both right imo.

Sorry if I got a bit carried away there. I'm a lawyer and fascinated by investigatory process and evidential burdens!

LEMtheoriginal · 17/09/2017 11:56

Do you think that the outcome will be the most politically acceptable? It would be quite brave of the channel if she were lying.

As someone with ropey MH I am certainly all to aware of prejudice encountered by people suffering from or have history of MH issues.

Original poster
isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 12:06

My DH said either way there will be an outcry (not sure I feel that). He is now back and banging about. Apparently he is not allowed an opinion (although it feels to me that I am not allowed to have a discussion). He is in a fowl mood (both children now in tears).

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Gorgosparta · 17/09/2017 12:36

Research shows that false accusations are actually really rare.

Actually figures on this are difficult to prove either way. The same as the figure of how many rapes go unreported is difficult prove. Because they are unreported. It could be higher or lower.

Police dont often pursue if they feel a rape report is done maliciously, unless the person has done it before or there is unrefutable proof.

I am not saying loads of women falsely report rape. Just that figures on these figures are not accurate.

Papafran · 17/09/2017 12:48

I don't think it's confined to rape- if they suspect you, they put the case to you. You don't see murder suspects being mollycoddled, so why expect it for rape suspects? I wish people wouldn't peddle the myth that rape is so much worse to be accused of than anything else and that the rate of false accusations is so much higher than for any other crime. It's really not- there are several people in the public eye who have proved that having a sexual assault conviction hardly destroys your life.

Papafran · 17/09/2017 12:49

He is now back and banging about. Apparently he is not allowed an opinion (although it feels to me that I am not allowed to have a discussion). He is in a fowl mood (both children now in tears)

Why is he being like this when he knows what you have been through? As if you're going to agree that they were sooo unfair to the suspect.

LEMtheoriginal · 17/09/2017 14:39

I think you need to start another thread in relationships about his behaviour. Xx

Original poster
isitbedtimeyet73 · 17/09/2017 16:18

One of his ex's was very controlling and he has his own issues, think that was the root of the anger earlier

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