Annoyed that my landlord wants to sell at Christmas

[VitriolicMuse]

We got served our section 21 eviction notice last week (totally out of the blue, we were settled and happy) and the house is going on the market in December (who does that?!). They've kindly said we can stay in the house until it sells, but AIBU to be really annoyed they can't hang on until after Christmas and allow us to enjoy the time in peace with our young family ( 7 and 18 months) now we'll probably have to put up with strangers wandering around opening cupboards etc with presents in. I don't even feel like decorating to be honest. I know they want to sell and we're just renting but I just feel like they should have been a bit more compassionate.

Why would you not want to allow any viewings? If OP starts being difficult I doubt the landlord will uphold their offer for OP and family to stay until December.

You've got a decent amount of notice, especially given that you have December too, so hopefully you'll find somewhere nice in that time :)

Why would you not want to allow any viewings?

Personally I wouldn't allow viewings as it's inconvenient and I don't like strangers walking around in my home.

OP,
Check the details in your agreement. I will be surprised if there is not a clause about visits for sale or re-letting with "dates and times "mutally agreed" usually with one days written notice - regardless of what others advice is, you signed the contract, you will be expected to adhere to it.

On a more positive note, you sound like you have a good relationship with the landlord. Given that househunting is not likely to be uppermost in peoples minds during December, you could definately schedule viewings in at set times, something like between 6-8pm on a weekday, and a couple of hours on Saturday mornings, so the agent knows in advance when they can organise viewings. (It may help getting the agent onside if they also handle rental properties, a foot in the door for you to get viewings first).
It also gives you a bit more time to look for something else if the landlord will let you stay till it's sold. This usually takes a couple of months from offer going in.
Anyhoo,
I hope it works out for you and your family, and hope you have a great and non stressy Christmas.

I guess you've probably got until late March, assuming it sells in late December/early January. That buys you some time. You could also consider renegotiating the monthly rent once your contract officially expires in November - they need your goodwill and regular payments as much as you need their house.

I'm glad you're not going down the bailiff route. That's not great on your record if you want to rent privately or apply for a mortgage in future.

I agree with a hiatus in viewings over Christmas too, so that you can enjoy it in peace and not worry about mess and disturbance. I'd probably say that Thurs 21st Dec would be the last day of viewings before the seasonal break, and that they can recommence on 2nd Jan. And yes yes yes to putting up decs!

I wouldn't allow viewings because agents always take the royal piss with them, IME.

I can understand you being pissed off if you were told it was a long let, got all settled in, then got a letter out of the blue saying you had to move. That's what I'm really worried about with the place I'm living in. Renting is a pita.

Good to see there is some sensible advice on here. You may actually be in a better position because of the time of year. The market picks up in the late summer but November/January tails off. There could be really amazing rental out there for you, you could even negotiate on rent. Asking to stay after completion is a no go because the ll will have to declare that the house is being sold with vacant occupancy. Have you spoken to your LL about selling to another LL? If they did, you'd be worth more to the seller if you stayed. It could be a bargaining tool?

Renting's horrible. I was a homeowner for 14 years and have now been in private renting for the last 9 - in two different properties. Both landlords have been ok, we've been lucky. About to get out of it now and back to ownership, but i'll never forget that 'not quite ever at home' feeling. Our first landlord told us suddenly he was selling. We'd been there 5 years and were happy ect. We got out within 4 weeks of the first phone call. House went on the market and didn't sell for 18 months .

Get a loan for the deposit/moving fees and get out asap OP. Put it all behind you by xmas.

Everyone having a go at the LL - they might have to sell, might have no choice. We are not all fat cats living off the rent we collect you know. As for people saying 'you don't have to leave, get them to evict you', thats a shitty thing to do as well.

the house is going on the market in December

I can see the LL point, Christmas is an excellent time to put a property on the market. No one is that bothered in November, December, but some of records hit views on rightmove and zoopla are on Christmas day and boxing day apparently. It makes sense, people are off, January is a new start and families can plan to move in the summer so not to disturb the kids schooling.

Advertising your property for sale in December doesn't mean it will sell instantly. You can be civil with the landlord, and agreeing to have no viewings between the 20 and the 27th for example.

Facts among the babble: (england)

• very hard to get tenants November and December, everyone seems to stop their lives to buy useless tat for four months. Great time to be looking if you are a tenant. Solicitors certainly pack up with two weeks to go.

• viewings are indeed at tenant convenience. Sensible landlords suck up the loss and wait for the property to be vacant.

• the op presumably does not have a fixed term tenancy, which is how tenants get security. If she did, it doesn't stop a sale but simply means the new owner becomes the new landlord.

• if tenancy is rolling, section 21 gives two months before further legals. These legals take months and cost about £450 plus any solicitor costs. Cock up the paperwork, pay again. Hence if the op wants more time but does plan to leave, best bet is to contact the landlord and ask them to wait. These costs go to the tenant although it is very rarely enforced. Waiting for bailiffs is only for those going for council help, which isn't the op.

• if the new owner wants to live in the property, no sane solicitor will allow exchange until the tenants have gone.

• landlords cannot choose the high court bailiffs, only request. Judges may refuse. I also think that even the high court ones now give notice.

As advised by pretty much every solicitor and agent who know the property must be vacant before exchange -- the LL has been advised to serve the notice before the house goes on the open market.

OP, you said they're lovely people. Why don't you suggest that they can place the house on sale now and you help by staging the house and accommodating viewings in exchange for 50-60% discount off rent? It might allow you to save faster for a deposit and the landlord might jump at the idea of a furnished place (always harder to sell an empty property).

Oh my word so much wrongness on this thread

OP - don't worry, it won't sell in December and you won't be kicked out with no notice.

All the section 21 does is allow the landlord to seek legal possession at the end of the notice period. If you and the landlord agree that you're staying, then you stay! You still have a tenancy agreement until either you or they end it LEGALLY. You can end it by giving one month notice then leaving the property. They can only end it by legally evicting you. But there is absolutely no need for that to happen!
You stay put in December and start looking for somewhere else to live. Then when you find a place you give one month notice and you move out. Simple.

And to all those saying 'check your tenancy agreement ' re viewings tenancy agreements are not legally enforceable in that respect so it doesn't matter what they say. It would be twatty of the op not to allow them though since that will probably lead to them being forced to move out sooner than they would otherwise.

"- very hard to get tenants November and December, everyone seems to stop their lives to buy useless tat for four months. Great time to be looking if you are a tenant. Solicitors certainly pack up with two weeks to go."

-very easy to get tenants in November and December if you're renting to families who need to be on catchment area for a school. School applications are usually early January.

• absolute bullshit about solicitors being off for two weeks around xmas. It's year end and they're busy.

ok, so when I was trying to exchange on a property in mid-December I must have imagined all the solicitors saying 'sorry, deadline is the 15th, back after new year'.

and similar stories from others.

my current rental is in not-London (so has to be decent and correctly priced) and has been available twice in the last two months of the year, with bugger all interest until after the tatfest has stopped. Only a two-bed though so perhaps not for a family with kids, although it was a surprise as I thought the not-with-kids would not be affected. There you go.

Not read the whole thread

OP could you talk to your landlord and ask them if it would be at all possible for them to wait for the first week of January to market/arrange viewings, at the same time offering them your flexibility for carrying out those viewings.

The reality is that pretty much no house sales go through for 6 weeks and most take more like 3 months in my experiences (3 houses). This would realistically give you until February to find somewhere. LL sound like they are trying to be reasonable and flexible by giving you the choice of moving out at the end of the notice period, or staying a little longer if needed/ you prefer (obviously as others have stated it is in the LL own interest to have you pay their mortgage for them).

Maybe you could even be cheeky and say that you will be happy to do the viewings/ have the house spotless for them, if they give you a reduced rent (ie enough to cover their mortgage) once you get past the end of the notice period...it's worth a try and as a LL myself I would certainly consider it as it would make my life easier.

We are landlords and we always check for reference. Dont listen to bad advise here. I've left a horrible reference for a stupid woman who owed us so much in rent arrears and even after DH tried to help her out by leaving her stuff at her mum's so she would not get into trouboe she was still being difficult. I hope she's fucking homeless now!

It's a good point by PP that they'll struggle to sell the property if it's not vacant- a lot of buyers wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Why do people keep talking about not allowing viewings? The notice ends in November, the house isn't being put on the market until December. OP should have been out a month before any viewings take place.

Yes, it's actually not too bad a situation. We were given 2 months notice and the 'for sale' sign went up the following day! We accommodated viewings, although not at times that were inconvenient to us.

"most people go but you don't have to if you don't want to."
Carjacker1985 what a shitty thing to advise.
You're basically suggesting that the OP just ignored her Landlord's official notice because the timing doesn't suit and just stay put?

"You're basically suggesting that the OP just ignored her Landlord's official notice because the timing doesn't suit and just stay put?"

This is the advice that a lot of renters HAVE to follow because councils will refuse to house them if they made themselves 'intentionally homeless', i.e. didn't leave until bailiffs came and chucked them out.

But it doesn't apply in OP's case anyway so it's useless on this thread.

The landlord said they could stay! Jesus nobody reads threads properly

What if the landlord is stuggling financially? What if they are being forced to sell because of debt? If you refuse to be reasonable about viewings, maybe the landlord won't let you stay past 8 weeks. I wouldn't.

What if the landlord is stuggling financially? What if they are being forced to sell because of debt?

professional landlords should have sufficiently funds to cover legal costs where necessary. If they aren't professional landlords they should sell up.

If you refuse to be reasonable about viewings, maybe the landlord won't let you stay past 8 weeks. I wouldn't

As has been pointed out many many times the landlord can't 'not allow' them to stay past 8 weeks. Landlords can't evict tenants at the end of a section 21 notice period.