To finish work on time

[tellow]

I'm a lunchtime supervisor. I'm contracted to work 11.30-1.30. I always blow the whistle to signal that it's time to come in at 1.25 its often 5-10min after that that I actually leave the building. Everyone does the same and never complains. Last week I blew the whistle at 1.20 to allow extra time that was needed to round up the reception class, obviously they aren't used to the routine or us and they keep running off etc. I get an email today complaining that the whistle is being blown to early. Obviously by blowing early the rest of the school re-enters school 5 min earlier than normal. I will mention it tomorrow but I feel this should of been obvious. Am I expected to stay even longer after my time has finished which we already do? How are we expected to blow the whistle at 1.30, line the children up and walk them in and finish at 1.30? AIBU?

"Last week I blew the whistle at 1.20 to allow extra time that was needed to round up the reception class, obviously they aren't used to the routine or us and they keep running off etc."

That makes perfect sense to me. The children should go in at 1.30pm. It usually takes 5 minutes to get them in, so you blow the whistle at 1.25pm. Now you have some children who need extra time, so you blow the whistle at 1.20pm. The problem has come because the children who don't need extra time have also come in, meaning they are 5 minutes early.

This isn't about leaving dead on time. It's about managing children into class on time.

Quite surprised you'd be this wound up over 5 mins. Many people work twice their contracted hours without overtime pay because the demands of their job require it. It seems a bit petty to complain about 5 minutes.

lougle, It might make perfect sense to you, but an MSA does not have the authority to make decisions like that. If she has a problem with how the school is run, she needs to ask to speak to someone, not take a unilateral decision that impacts on most of the other staff in the school. She was bang out-of-line to do what she did.

If you think it's petty to complain about 5 minutes a day, try thinking of it in percentage or extra day terms instead.

OP is contracted to work 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, presumably 39 weeks a year. So her whole working hours annually are 390. The school expect an extra 5 minutes each day from her, because she's still working at 1.35 if the bell goes at 1.25 and it takes 10 minutes to get the DC in. That's an extra 25 minutes a week, or 16.25 hours each year. Ie, nearly two weeks a year of unpaid labour from OP. Whilst breaking NMW laws in the process.

Now clearly OP cannot take it on herself to change the structure of the school day, but if you think it's acceptable for employers to insist on nearly two weeks of unpaid work per annum from staff and the employee is petty to refuse, it's not OP's attitude that needs to change.

Also, none of the examples anyone gives are relevant unless they're paid an hourly rate and on NMW, and the employers are also breaking NMW laws. Which obviously are shockingly common, so I don't doubt some MNers are being similarly exploited. But slagging off people who object to this is not the way forward.

YANBU to want and expect to work your contracted hours on the pittance wage you're getting paid as a lunchtime supervisor. If the HT wants you to be 'flexible' they should be prepared to pay for it.

I think YWBU simply to decide that all the children should go in earlier to compensate for you not being paid for the time it takes. I'm not a teacher, but I know from when my own children were in primary school, that a lot goes on behind the scenes during lunchtime - so not only did you potentially cost teachers five minutes' of their rest time, but there also might have been other activities/preparation for the afternoon happening that were disrupted without warning. That's not fair and it will have had an impact on people who aren't to blame. I don't blame them for being annoyed.

Better to go and talk to the HT or your line manager about timings, and make it clear that either break needs to finish five minutes earlier by agreement and prior arrangement, or you should be paid until 1.35.

Additionally, the jobs where people are working twice their contracted hours are not generally NMW jobs. They're salaried roles where you have to do what's needed to get the job done. So again a different kettle of fish from OP.

NMW roles certainly do often require (illegally) an amount of unpaid overtime, such as call centre staff being expected to be logged in and ready for shift start and finishing all calls before leaving, retail staff having to set up etc. And that's in no way acceptable, but it's not double their paid hours. The exceptions to this can be things like charities and creative setups, where the budget only stretches to paying for a certain number of hours but staff know the place can't keep going if they don't work for free too. But there are likely fewer of them than there are lawyers, teachers, nurses, doctors etc.

Now clearly OP cannot take it on herself to change the structure of the school day

But that's effectively what she tried to do. No wonder complaints were made.

Yes, absolutely. However, that doesn't mean she's wrong to object to the expectation that she'll do a week and a half a year of unpaid work, time she'd use for volunteering instead. It just means she should tackle it differently.

What banana said

In fact i may not bother coming bak to the thread (not that anyone will notice )

Just assume that i agree with whatever banana says in future

Obviously unless she says something really dumb...in which case I don't know her

You are doing 5 minutes extra each day .... think yourself lucky. I regularly finish hours after my finish time.

I'm always the epitome of smart rufus, don't worry. You're safe with me!

Honestly it sounds like this might not be the job for you. However I've never had a job where I'm walking on the door at exactly my finish time so think you might struggle to find one that does . ( I'm sure they do exist) . I would probably be a bit if someone in my team
Came yo me with your issue and u definitely wouldn't be blowing whistle earlier than you should to get the kids in , that way definitely lies disaster!

It's difficult. In my job my boss knows I have to leave bang on time as I have to pick my kids up from after school care and the timing is very tight. However, she does expect me to be there 15 mins early to help set up and that isn't paid. My work is also a short shift, just 2 hours. I think all you can do is talk to the school and hopefully resolve the situation.

In my previous job I was paid 9 - 5.30. You had to be in for the meeting at 8.30. You were not allowed to set your phone to unavailable until 5.30 on the dot. The phones rang continuously and the average phone call lasted 30 mins plus 15 mins admin that needed to be done straight after. You then had to sort out your figures for the day before you were allowed to leave. I never managed to leave before 7pm. This was a crappy minimum wage job, not a real career. I think most people would be chuffed with 5 minutes.

If I was to blow the whistle on the dot and continue working at the moment the whole school would be starting their afternoon 5-10 min late so I would not be the only one behind time. I am in fact blowing the whistle earlier so that the children can begin lessons on time not just so I can leave on time. Complaints would also be directed at me if children were arriving back to class late.

Excellent banana

Bit confused about all the 'well i leave late so should you' style posts

There are days when i leave work late and thats par for the course and an accident as it were, and other days when i leave late and work do it on purpose

I don't begrudge the accident days, i bloody begrudge the work doing it on purpose days

I am in fact blowing the whistle earlier so that the children can begin lessons on time

THAT's NOT YOUR JOB!!! That's up to the Head Teacher.
Jeez, how many more times?

Did you speak to the Head yet?

Yet it seems it's apparently sufficiently OPs job that she gets bollocked if the kids are late back in thatdearoctopus. It seems a very badly run school. Whoever's in charge of this apparently doesn't understand either NMW legislation or the amount of time it takes from whistle blowing to delivering children back into class.