Do you change your accent mid-sentence to pronounce foreign names?

[ShapelyBingoWing]

Not a current situation, but something that's played on my mind many times since knowing this person.

I used to have a colleague called Joao, a Portuguese fellow. We didn't work particularly closely together but he was known for getting very annoyed when those further down the pecking order than him didn't say his name the Portuguese way. He did seem happy for his superiors to call him "Jow".

I can't think of anyone else I've ever come across insisting that their name is pronounced their native way. In fact, nearly everyone I know whose name doesn't gel well with the English accent has always introduced themselves and then said "call me X" (X being a version of their name that an English accent can easily manage).

I don't really know what the reasonable expectation is in this situation. It must be frustrating when people always say your name wrong but equally I've seen how difficult people seem to find a mid sentence accent change...most people simply tried to avoid ever actually addressing him by name!

But isn't that the difference between accent and pronunciation? I think you used the chorizo example earlier. I'd pronounce it ch/huh ree tho but it would still be in my accent in the UK. I wouldn't use a Spanish accent but I'd attempt Spanish pronunciation. Saying cho ritzo would be pronouncing it wrong.

But you say this as though it's a major undertaking which needs serious preparation or something! It's not 'changing your accent', it's saying one word in another accent.

Not sure I really agree that saying one word in a different accent isn't the same as changing your accent to pronounce a word.

And though I don't necessarily thing it's a big undertaking most of the time, it may often require putting on an accent you simply can't do, making it sound like you're taking the piss. Or it could need you to attempt sounds that aren't part of your native accent.

Of course, it's lovely if someone does it and manages it well. But I'm starting to think (with the help of all the responses) that it's unreasonable to expect a change of accent in this situation. And even more unreasonable to get annoyed with people who don't do this on request. It isn't something I expect people from other countries to do when saying my name.

When you say a name that is native to a particular language correctly, there is no 'accent'. It's just saying the name correctly. Your colleague is asking people to make more effort to say his name without an English accent. From an English person's perspective it feels like they are being asked to 'do an accent' but they're really not. They are being asked to make sounds that don't exist in English.

Overall I would say that your colleague is being a bit U to insist that people do this as it is hard to get right and makes people feel self conscious.

My daughter has a welsh name, her dad is english. he and i say it slightly differently due to his accent. putting on an exagerated attempt at an accent to say a word is, i feel, not needed or reasonable to expect people to do.

Going back to the Welsh point, I wouldn't say Kevin in a welsh accent, if that Kevin was from Wales. However, I think Malmi expresses it best.

When you say a name that is native to a particular language correctly, there is no 'accent'. It's just saying the name correctly. Your colleague is asking people to make more effort to say his name without an English accent.

I know I am probably BU because yes, that's how she herself would say it when talking to a fellow French person. But for some reason it just really grates every time I hear it! It almost sounds like he's taking the piss.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. People think or feel that putting on accents sounds like you're taking the piss out of the persons accent. There might also be the concern than rather than getting it really wrong by trying to get it right, it's better to just say it in a way you're comfortable with.

My DH is foreign with an English version of his name like for example he's called Matthew rather than Mateo and my friends DH is the same, like John rather than Giuseppe. (Not really their names). Some people think that we're dim and when we introduce them as Matthew and John and think they're being clever by re-naming them Mateo and Giuseppe, they are tired now of correcting people, so let them just crack on, but it annoys them. That I think, is far ruder than just having a go at saying João or Catherine with various degrees of correctness.
I also think that as João has been in the uk since childhood he's probably got more of a chip on his shoulder about making his name distinctly Portugueseas part of his identity than say someone who was just fresh off the plane from Lisbon and wouldn't mind so much if he was anglicised.

They do this on Radio 4. Reporter or guest will be talking about something in their RP accent, then a foreign name (place or person) will be hyper-foreignised. It makes me cringe.

DB's Spanish girlfriend is Alicia. I pronounce it A-liss-e-a. If I said it the way she does, I'd sound like I had a lisp or was taking the piss.

For a name, yes I would try. Because many years ago, I had a new child in my class who said his name was Pak, and I said 'Ok, but on the register, your name is Prakash. Do you prefer Pak?'
And his face lit up, and he said 'You know how to say my name!?' as if I had done something outstandingly more complicated than just calling him by the right name. Which no one else had bothered to do, so he'd created a name for school.

People think or feel that putting on accents sounds like you're taking the piss out of the persons accent

I have to agree here, which goes back to my idea that I think British people think their accent is sort of the neutral benchmark.

DB's Spanish girlfriend is Alicia. I pronounce it A-liss-e-a. If I said it the way she does, I'd sound like I had a lisp or was taking the piss.

Assuming it is A-lith-e-a, would it really be that bad to say it like that, if that is her name.

Yes, because I'd feel daft for reasons given in my post.

making it sound like you're taking the piss

Yes but you're not. And I think it's a bit of purely British weird awkwardness to think that a French person hearing you pronouncing their French name in a French way would think you were taking the piss. If your name was... say... Helen, would you think a foreign person was takibg the piss out of you if they pronounced Helen in an English way?

Yes, because I'd feel daft for reasons given in my post.

So basically your very British fear of feeling 'daft' about making the effort to pronounce a foreign word correctly trumps other people's right to be called by their actual name?

Incidentally, I'm entirely Brit myself. I have spent much of my career trying to coax kids in MFL lessons in UK schools to try pronouncing French and German in French and German accents. It's not that they can't do it (although some are better at it than others). It's that they are frightened and embarrassed to try. I taught English in France for a while and never had that trouble at all. The kids were not at all embarrassed to try and sound English, and they certainly didn't seem to think they were taking the piss by trying to copy my accent and pronunciation.

Maybe if parents of UK kids tried to overcome their own embarrassment, the children might be a bit braver too.

to be fair though, the /ao/ diphthong in Joao is pretty difficult for people to pronounce who aren't familiar with it.
Is he asking you to say that sound correctly or can you already say it, but in your own accent.

I think asking you to try and say it correctly is fine, but if you can't do it, then as close an approximation as you can manage is ok. again, with the welsh analogy, if you can't say /ll/, despite trying then all you can do is your best. learning 'new' sounds when you are an adult is difficult and takes a lot of work.

I live in Florida. Lots of people are bilingual. They tend to pronounce Spanish words including names with a full on Latin American Spanish accent even when speaking English. That said, I have never encountered anyone who would expect that from a non-Spanish speaker. Most people do make an effort at a close approximation.

I would feel daft using a 'th' sapins for someone's name - it's their name!! My feelings about it are secondary.

I worked with a lad called Marcin. I started with a straight, English accented Mar-sin (to rhyme with Martin). He taught me that it was 1. admittedly not obvious rob emglish speakers but that 2. Mar-chin would be a closer approximation. So I swapped to that - why wouldn't I?

I would feel daft using a 'th' sapins for someone's name - it's their name
Should be:
I wouldn't feel daft using a 'th' sound for someone's name - it's their name

I am a long term foreign resident in a non-English speaking country. It's fine to say "kyasalin" rather than Catherine [random example], because that's the approximate translation of the sounds of my name in the local language.

If people tried to put on an English accent when speaking my name, it would feel quite "othering," and would make me feel that I'm not being included in the conversation in a normal way.

Anyway, don't South American Spanish (and Spanish speakers from many parts of Spain, for that matter) speakers say "s" rather than "th"? What if someone speaks a South American version of Spanish because they grew up in Chile or something--should they be required to put on a Spanish Spanish accent and start doing "th" sounds whenever they say the name of someone from Spain?

I'm just thinking. My Spanish friends say my first name with Spanish pronunciation - it's reasonably close anyway, but the first syllable is rendered Ay rather than a blunt Eh.

I don't think you could pronounce my real name correctly without mimicking the accent. I use a different name when I introduce myself to english speakers because it makes my teeth itch to hear my pretty name being mangled. You have no idea what stupid sounding variations people can make. But maybe some people don't mind. I do, though.

I think that the owner of the name has the last say if it needs to be pronounced with the original accent or not.

Londoncheapo interesting point. I'd guess no, they would say the name in their accent. It's like Graham in the UK and Graham and the USA, sounding like different names.

@Shapely but whilst RP cathy isn't accessible to French speakers, an Estuary English version of it would be (so "caffy") which is at least not an insult in English.

But no, your point is fair, it's not reasonable to expect people to produce sounds they can't produce. I still think having a go is reasonable. I also think that when the sound exists in your language, but is just represented by different letters you should make the effort. (So for example, the ch sound in the middle of Italian Lucia does exist in English, as does the ay sound at the end of French Roger, even if the letters used would indicate something else in English.)

It sounds like you were making an effort and your colleague was expecting too much, though.

I'd certainly try to pronounce someone's name the way they do, it seems rude not to, tbh.

My determination to do so is even greater since my racist, sexist and utterly vile BiL proudly made no effort whatsoever to pronounce "Davide" the way the French do when he had a French carpenter working for him.

I try my best to say the names correctly. For example Dawid, Piotr and not David and Peter. It's not an accent change because I don't ever speak with a Polish accent!

Actually same as the person living in Florida. We tend to say Maori names properly with as close a Maori way of saying it too. Otherwise it's insulting to anglicise them. For example Whanganui is a W and not a Wh/F sound.