That if something is compulsory on the National Curriculum, parents should not be asked to pay?

[TattyDevine]

Our school is asking for £25 to cover the cost of the coach to take them to swimming lessons, which are compulsory under the national curriculum.

This is a state school btw.

I asked whether my child could opt out, as she is already a very competent swimmer who has private swimming lessons at great expense already. The answer was no, it's compulsory.

I get that education cuts put schools in a tricky position trying to balance the books and that coaches cost money but it's not like a school trip where if you can't pay you can not go..

What next, paying for maths class?
Child is in the first year of KS2.

AIBU?

showergel1, I don't think teachers should take a pay cut. Headmasters on the other hand, well perhaps if you were fully informed on how much they are paid you may change your mind. Or not, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

Why shouldn't McDonalds workers be paid a living wage? The crap they have to put up with (sometimes literally) I think it's the least they should be paid.

This is what happens under a Tory Government I must ask for the refund I paid for my dc's swimming lessons under Labour then. I didn't realise they should have been free because of that.

I have huge sympathy with you OP. From our family pov, swimming lessons through school were a complete waste of time - all my dc were already very able swimmer before they got to that stage. I would have resented being asked to contribute to something that actually doesn't benefit them in any way and also gives them 1/2 a day off school a week. (mine could walk so it didn't cost anything).

OTOH, at one school I taught at, we'd take our 7 yr olds and for something like 70% of the dc, it was the first time they had been to the local baths. So, in that case, it was really important that the school did take them swimming.

If people won't pay for the coach, then it just means something else the school provides will have to be cut - then you have to think what that could be.

instead of moaning on here OP (and everyone else who is rightly saying the cost should be met by the school) write to your MP

IME school swimming lessons were a total waste of time for competent swimmers. It takes up almost a whole morning and the total amount of time actually swimming is tiny. My DC was even told to 'not swim too well or it might make others feel bad.'

He happened to be in a class with some other very able swimmers and all of the parents were frustrated by this. It wasn't even the cost that riled me but the time taken from the week spent so unproductively.

It should not be compulsory for children who can prove they can swim to a required standard.

Why do you expect other people to pay for your child?

The idea of school/education was that all children of our country could access free education. Free means free (unless you can afford to go private).

The political aspect of it is another matter, no one would deny schools are underfunded and teachers are overworked. However, that doesn't mean parents have to start plugging the holes that the government create. That just leads us further down the shithole that the Tories have made of public services.

The government doesn't even provide enough money to pay teachers adequately and ensure the school roof doesn't leak. Asking parents to pay for something very tangible makes sense.

If you are in financial difficulty then tell the school. If you can register for free school meals then please do. You don't have to eat them, but it makes a huge financial difference to the school.

YANBU, not everyone has £25 to spend.

Sigh, here we go again. Schools are not charities. While I agree with the OP it simply isn't possible for schools to afford everything they should provide. They are on their knees.

Having children costs money, so you plan the number of children you want accordingly. Why should you expect other people to pay for them?

Lonicera - you've said it perfectly.

You could drive her? Just to make a point? And how much would that cost?

You don't say whether it's £25 a term or year but in either case, consider how much that is per session. I hired a coach for a day recently - it cost £350. Now consider the cost of £25 x 32 children x 12 (or 36) weeks. Are you getting value for money? If you drove her, what would be your petrol costs and the cost of your time?

I think £25 is a bargain our school has asked for £65 for one terms swimming

I have long thought that school swimming lessons should be differently organised. They should be focussed on those who can't swim 2 lengths of a large public pool. Everyone else should be given vouchers to swim at their local pool (which they probably use anyway because they can swim) and left at school doing regular PE. Those swimming get a FREE coach and FREE lessons. Those who already swim don't get enough out of the school lessons, with the large class sizes in my opinion (exept of course the physical fitness aspect, which is covered by doing normal PE). Those who can't swim well would benefit from an environment where they're not compared with the others.

As someone has already mentioned you are being asked to pay for transport not the lessons themselves.

Our school did this, so many parents complained that the school now make the children walk. Now parents complain that the children have to walk for half an hour there then swim then another half an hour walk back - they are complaining the children are too tired!

School can't win! They really don't have enough money, we are in one of the lowest funded areas in the country.

I can see the day happening - soon -when all parents will be requested to make a contribution at the beginning of the year, just a few £100 - not in relation with the real cost of the year, but to help out.

Ok, free education, but they could
-scrap the free supplies (books, paper, pens)
-scrap the free food (or charge it at cost, not heavily subsidised)
-scrap the subsidised cost of days out
-scrap the free letters sent to the parents and email or ask you to pay for the paper and stamps
-put 1 teacher for 60 kids (poor teacher)
-put in place charges to maintain the building, pay for toilet tissue etc..
etc...

All parents want the best for their kids, not entering in a war asking for a bargain education because you refuse to spend a few pennies.

I think that is not too bad. The coast of hiring coaches is ridiculous now, partly due to fuel price rises (and I'm sure paying the drivers a minimum wage which I'm all for!) and has definitely affected my school's ability or put on cost effective trips.

The school should budget accordingly

With what? All the 'leftover money'? Having made support staff/teachers redundant this year and cut back to the bone, this is not feasible.

If the school had to budget accordingly, it would make financial sense to cut the swimming entirely.

I assume some children learn to swim at these lessons who might never have been signed up for other lessons, and one day it might save their lives.

It's such a tough situation.

My advice would be to write to the governors and MP. Outline what you have here - it's compulsory on NC and state education is meant to be free.
Ask how they are going to ensure all children get access to the NC free of charge and provide schools with the funding they need to do this.

All parents want the best for their kids, not entering in a war asking for a bargain education because you refuse to spend a few pennies.

The issue is that it's bottled down to 'parents vs school', when it should be 'parents and schools vs government'. Saying parents should put a few pennies in here and there is all well and good, but it never stops there. The government just sees this as another way to reduce funding, as whatever they won't give, someone has to make up the cost. In a few years time it will be the same bloody mess as the NHS. Making out the parents are too 'cheap' to pay for free education is just pushing the blame back and forth between the wrong people.

This is what happens under a Tory Government..

Why do people say this shit?

I paid under Labour. I vote labour.

You are not being unreasonable. £25 isn't nothing it's almost two weeks worth of lunches.

It should either be free, voluntary or you should be able to opt out.

" 'This is what happens under a Tory Government' I must ask for the refund I paid for my dc's swimming lessons under Labour then. I didn't realise they should have been free because of that."

Me too!

But actual practice in schools before 2010 will never stand in the way of a Tory-bashing thread.

But actual practice in schools before 2010 will never stand in the way of a Tory-bashing thread.

Things weren't perfect before the Tories came into power, no one should look back with rose-tinted glasses. However, what they have done to our education system since 2010 is truly shocking and quite horrifying. The lack of funding, the changes to the curriculum, working teachers into quitting left, right and centre - it's all an absolute mess. If most people knew the half of it, they'd be very worried about what kind of education their children were in for, or at least they should be.

yes, schools should get more funding AND parents should be involved financially more. Win win for everybody.

If schools could include swimming every year from reception, many parents would not need to find a way to pay for ridiculously expensive swimming lessons privately.
If parents could be asked for more contribution (not paying for school, we are not talking private school here), there would be more after-school clubs, more opportunities - and a club is a hell of a lot cheaper than childcare, and more interesting for the child.

I agree that it's wrong to cut school funding (lord knows how many hours we spend trying to raise funds to cover the difference in my local schools). It's also wrong for parents to think that once the kids start school, they are relieved off all cost, bare the uniforms. Children don't become "free" once they start school, it's not the point.

what they have done to our education system since 2010 is truly shocking and quite horrifying

true, and I salute the teachers BUT they wouldn't have to do most of it if they had found a healthy budget, instead of the disaster left by labour. Now, would there be different ways to make the cuts? possibly, but no-one else seemed to offer a better solution.