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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That it's probably not a good thing to keep telling people that drinking in pregnancy

43 replies

minifingerz · 07/09/2017 11:55

... is unlikely to have harmed a baby, as long as the mum isn't drinking at very high levels, and as long as she stops drinking when she knows she's pregnant.

What's got me thinking about this was listening to a true crime podcast where they had a paediatrician talking about fatal alcohol syndrome, and that made me reflect on a thread I read on here a few weeks ago.

On the thread a few weeks ago a poster said that she hadn't discovered her pregnancy until she was 3 months+ (I think) and that she'd drunk quite a lot before knowing. Most of the rest of the posters reassured her that they had also drunk during early pregnancy and that their children were fine. One poster said her obstetrician had said he'd only seen one case of FAS in his career and that it was very rare.

My understanding of FAS is that it's a spectrum disorder, and that children's development can be negatively affected at lower levels of consumption, and that fetal alcohol spectrum disorders can be quite difficult to diagnose because a child can have sustained developmental damage without having the typical features of FAS (short nose, small eye sockets, flat filtrum).

I know if I'd been drinking in pregnancy I'd want to be told it didn't matter, but then I worry that the message that only heavy drinking may harm a baby, and that if the baby is harmed it's always obvious, isn't necessarily a good one to have out there in a culture where heavy drinking among young women is pretty prevalent. Apparently FASD is often misdiagnosed as in older children or adults as ADHD or ASD.

I'm saying all this by the way as someone who didn't stop drinking during any of my pregnancies, though I always drank at a very low level (i.e., 1 or 2 units once or twice a week, as OK'd by my GP at the time). If I'd known then what I know now I don't think I would have drunk at all.

OP posts:
MegEmski · 07/09/2017 14:05

@minifingerz "- i.e. that drinking ALWAYS harms the developing fetus"

what? WHAT?

that's a) total bollocks and b) a gross misunderstanding of "There's no known level of safe consumption"

Ilovecoleslaw · 07/09/2017 14:14

Although i agree that pregnant woman should not drink heavily, and heavily judge those who do when knowingly pregnant.

The evidence does not show that small amounts of alcohol could potentially harm a foetus. Likewise, women have a right to autonomy and are free to make decisions about themselves and their unborn baby, as they choose.

Although i would personally abstain from alcohol in pregnancy, there has been no proof that a small amount of alcohol would harm the baby.

I recently went to a wedding and was on a table with a heavily pregnant woman, who drunk about 6 full glasses of white wine, and that really made me sad :(

upperlimit · 07/09/2017 14:16

You don't get this carry on the CO. We don't know of a safe limit for carbon monoxide but we know at high levels it can cause serious problems and still birth.

So, are we meant not to drive or walk along roads. No, because there is no known safe limit we know that these activities don't cause those problems.

The only difference between CO and alcohol is that we have a whole discourse around what is to be a 'good' women and a 'good' mother and that is centered on sacrifice (so long as it doesn't inconvenience anybody else). Which is why we get this moralising, patronising bullshit around light drinking in pregnancy.

upperlimit · 07/09/2017 14:17

...Because although we know there is no safe limit we also know...

expatinscotland · 07/09/2017 14:29

Some people are never happy unless they are shaming someone else. The number of smokers is decreasing, so they shame vapers. Fat shaming, food shaming, parenting shaming, pregnant women shaming. What a sad world to live in. YABU.

ExPresidents · 12/09/2017 11:08

Relevant news in the papers today on this issue

www.independent.co.uk/news/pregnancy-drinking-units-allowed-health-baby-harm-a7941316.html

BuckinhamL · 12/09/2017 11:44

And especially not with regard to drinking in early pregnancy. What will be next? Will I have to provide proof that I have a contraceptive implant (oh joy, the lovely side effects!) just so that I'll be allowed to buy alcohol?

It's advice, not law.

Oly5 · 12/09/2017 11:55

Minifingerz, can you link to the scientific evidence that any level of drinking harms a baby?
That's right, there is none is there?
OP, what's your point, you're talking about FAS which is to do with heavy drinking.
This latest research looked at light drinking, which is what most women do.
What are you trying to say exactly?

ballestief · 12/09/2017 12:01

s unlikely to have harmed a baby, as long as the mum isn't drinking at very high levels, and as long as she stops drinking when she knows she's pregnant

Well its the truth, so I think we should absolutely carry on saying it. Would you like everyone to lie instead?

silkpyjamasallday · 12/09/2017 16:05

I think the problem is that although the official advice has changed from however many units a week to avoid drinking completely in pregnancy, people still encourage and normalise drinking alcohol while pregnant, you see it on here all the time 'one glass won't hurt' 'my dd was fine and I drank every friday' etc. I had people being really really pushy trying to get me to drink while I was pregnant as it would 'do no harm' I personally didn't want to consume anything that could negatively affect DD.

Low levels of drinking may not affect the foetus, but surely this would be the same as if a woman was having one or two cigarettes a day but smoking while pregnant is massively demonised. Because alcohol is such a huge part of our culture and regular consumption of alcohol is accepted by society as normal people then ignore the fact that if you can't go 40 weeks without a drink when you know there is the potential to do harm to a developing baby, however slim it may be, you have a problem. We know that we have huge issues with alcohol in this country, and people generally underestimate how many units of alcohol they are consuming hence why the advice has changed. I think it is really sad if someone can't make the best choice for their baby at the most crucial point in their development because they want to drink booze. You don't need it to celebrate or relax or enjoy yourself, there are always other drink options available so I don't think there is any excuse for it.

Addiction is difficult for anyone to deal with, let alone when pregnant but most people wouldn't admit to having a dependency on alcohol in the way a smoker would admit they were addicted to nicotine. I smoked heavily before I found out I was pregnant, but I had such bad HG that I couldn't actually smoke without vomiting so I stopped smoking before I did a pg test at about three weeks when I realised the vomiting wasn't a stomach bug. I am lucky in a way that I quit so early because of the sickness, I think I would have struggled had smoking not made me feel more rotten than I already did. But I wouldn't have continued to smoke once I knew, because even a slim chance of problems wasn't one I was willing to inflict on my baby by making selfish choices.

Pengggwn · 12/09/2017 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InDubiousBattle · 12/09/2017 16:33

It is really sad if someone can't make the best choice for their baby at the most crucial part of their development because they want to drink booze

The op isn't talking about making a choice about whether or not to drink during pregnancy though. mimfingerz is saying that we shouldn't tell a pregnant woman who has had a drink that her baby will most likely be fine. Even though her baby will most likely be fine. Or at least that's how I read the op.

InDubiousBattle · 12/09/2017 16:37

Sorry posted too soon..

What would seriously be gained by saying to a woman who has just found out that she's pregnant and drank three weeks ago before she knew 'you have almost certainly harmed your baby, even if everything seems fine when the baby's born there are untold things that could crop up many years from now that could be attrributed to that night out'? As well as being wrong what would that seriously achieve?

Sayyouwill · 12/09/2017 16:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Scrowy · 12/09/2017 17:16
Grin
FlyingGiraffeBox · 12/09/2017 17:41

I think we should stop spreading the message that it probably doesn't matter if you drink in pregnancy as long as you're not drinking heavily.

But it's not a message. It's the truth. Or are we women too silly to be told the truth lest we take it as carte blanche to neck a bottle of vodka every night? Do we need protecting from ourselves? Or are we adults that can examine the evidence and make decisions accordingly?

lookingbeyond40 · 12/09/2017 17:47

Please can you link the evidence that FAS can be diagnosed as ASD/ADHD in later life?

I'd like to see it if you don't mind. I have two autistic children and this is a new one on me.

sparechange · 12/09/2017 17:55

silkpyjamasallday

Your post, as well meaning as it is, just screams out that you really don't understand risk

You say you wouldn't consume anything while pregnant that posed a risk. Really? Because there is no established safe amount of orange juice or tea or bread or yoghurt that can be consumed during pregnancy.
Even water carries an element of risk

And that's before we get onto risky behaviours - sex, driving, having a bath, walking on a pavement. All come with risk to a developing baby.

I'd be really interested in a detailed account of your day while pregnant that eliminated all risk...

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