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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Inclusion/violent Pupil in daughter's class

25 replies

Pankhurst09 · 05/09/2017 23:23

My daughter is 8 years old. She is in a class of 33. The class fairly recently went from around 26 to 33, all appeared to be coping well. Recently there has been a new addition taking the class to 34, a high number regardless of additional support needs.

Without disclosing every incident this new classmate has a ASC diagnosis and has directly threatened my daughter, thrown things which she has been hit with, hit other children, stormed out of classes, has had a two person restraint/removal from class. The Pupil only has one to one intervention when something 'kicks off' which has been almost daily over a two month period. My daughter is terrified, crying, refusing to go to school.

I have previously worked in a residential school for young people with ASD and have always been extremely empathetic. My daughter at 8 is extremely stressed, scared and not wanting to go to school, despite having previously loved school, there has never been an incidence before of her not wanting to/being scared to go to school. I have written a letter, had face to face meetings and am now escalating to senior management as the situation remains the same for my daughter. The emphasis has been firmly on inclusion and what is best for the new Pupil and what my daughter can do to keep herself safe, manage HER anxiety.

As a mother my heart goes out to the other side of this story but my focus must be on my terrified 8 year old. I need to advocate for her or who else will? She does not have the coping strategies of an adult something that seems to be conveniently/worryingly overlooked in the present system.

The system is at fault. Closing all the special education units in the 80's was a travesty in my eyes. The lack of provision now is a disgrace. But! We are failing our children in mainstream education as well. I have researched inclusion quite extensively since I found myself and my daughter in this position and an article about inclusion really struck a chord because it is so one sided, so blinded by inclusion, but only inclusion at its best, it does not address the major issues, the lack of support, the lack of funding, the inconsistency in approach, the impact on the 33 others when they don't 'get it right' this system is not 'getting it right for every child' it's not even getting it right for one. The system needs to change. We need to recognise specialist provision is not discrimination it's 'getting it right for EVERY child' this is the article I was referring to;

missnightmutters.com/2014/11/dear-parent-about-that-kid.html

And this is my response;

I went to school today,
Happy and carefree,
I skipped to school today
Keen to learn and play

I followed all the rules you asked,
I hung my coat upon the peg,
I wrote the words you asked me,
I did all the things you said.

I try my best to please you
in that class of 33,
I understand your busy,
Your focus can not be only me.

I went to school today,
In a class was 34,
Our new classmate was different,
He was lying on the floor.

I tried my best not to show my fear
when he threw those pens at me,
I did quietly sit and cry
when nobody could see.

There was lots of talk
within our class
how we should act and be,
I tried to be so very brave
when my classmate threatened me.

I went to school today
and was quiet,
and careful
and aware.
I've learned not to voice my fears,
I fear that no one cares.

I know I'm only 8 years old
and my voice is so tiny and wee
but you see
I was coping
in that class of 33.

I went to school today
in my class of 34
if you listened to my little voice,
I'm not coping anymore.

Things need to change for all our children.
I know not everyone will agree but if you do please wish me luck. I don't think I've ever been as stressed and upset. It's the worst thing in the world watching your child struggle and be scared and I truly do see it from both sides, I'm just fighting the fight for my scared little girl at the moment, I hope all parents get the right outcome for their child.

OP posts:
Partypolitics99 · 05/09/2017 23:26

I work with people with disabilities and who care for people with disabilities. Parents are encouraged to educate their kids in the mainstream. I have seen many a parent try to get specialist education for their child only to be told they can't.

I can see both sides to this I really can but I don't know the solution

User02 · 05/09/2017 23:33

It must be absolutely distressing to have to send your DD to school knowing that she has had missiles thrown at her and been threatened. I am not sure I could do that.
I agree that things have swung a great distance. You can barely say a word about anything these days without someone taking offence,
I really hope that this is not a signal of what is to come. Ordinary or NT children being stopped from learning and being adversely affected by the needs and demands that special needs children have to be included.
There has to be a middle line and all children must be safe and parents must feel that they can rely on the schools to keep all our children safe.

Pankhurst09 · 05/09/2017 23:36

Party politics I totally agree it literally is the politics that are at fault. It's funding and lack of provision and pretending they are 'getting it right for every child' how the bloody hell is sensory overload in a class of 33 that then leads to violent outbursts getting it right for anyone? My concern is the awful damage that is being done on both sides. 8 year olds living on nerves, having that fight or flight response daily is a disgrace. Would we get away with that in the workplace?

OP posts:
Pankhurst09 · 05/09/2017 23:39

User couldn't agree more. The most worrying thing for me is that my daughter's school is really one of the best in all other respects. I think there is a worrying cohort of individuals in school that take a high and mighty attitude to inclusion with very little understanding of the real issues/needs surrounding inclusion not only for their mainstream pupils but for those pupils they are trying to integrate.

OP posts:
Pankhurst09 · 05/09/2017 23:42

*you're busy not your 😬

OP posts:
Blahblahboo · 05/09/2017 23:43

I'm afraid, disabled or not I would have to push the school to remove the child from class. It's not fair to the other children to be attacked and scared

readingintherain · 05/09/2017 23:44

Autism in itself doesn't directly cause violence and certainly not aimed at any one individual. I have known children with autism lash out when overwhelmed but not target an individual in the way you describe. Your whole post makes me feel very uncomfortable actually.

Out2pasture · 05/09/2017 23:47

i'm "that parent" that would be advocating for my child daily and relentlessly.

User02 · 05/09/2017 23:47

Have you spoken with any of the other parents of children in the class or any parents at the school gate?
Perhaps you could ask for those pushing this situation to sit in the class and see for themselves. If they wont them tell them they have no right to subject 8 year olds to a violent situation.
Another point is who is lookng after the 33 pupils while 1 pupil is being restrained and removed by 2 adults?

Pankhurst09 · 05/09/2017 23:48

Blah I'm going to ask for one to one support, as I have done before.

Reading- why does my post make you feel uncomfortable? I never said the violence was aimed at one individual if anything it's aimed at the whole class.

OP posts:
Pankhurst09 · 05/09/2017 23:51

Out I get you are "that" parent, I am too but from the other side.

User- other parents have complained but I am acutely aware that I need to advocate for only my child otherwise it could be seen as 'ganging up'

OP posts:
Sheitgeist · 05/09/2017 23:52

I am the parent of a child with ASD and I agree completely with everything you've said.
We've been lucky: by making absolute pests of ourselves, and with school's help we managed to get a place in an STF for our daughter. There are many others who are just as deserving but there aren't enough places so they are in mainstream.

ASD child and classmates are all failed.

ThoseCowsAreFarAway · 05/09/2017 23:52

Good luck.

34 is far too big a class size and I don't see how a Teacher could possibly teach a class of that size with varying abilities. Eight year olds shouldn't have to see a child be taken out of the class by two adults - I would be so sad if my daughter was in that class. No easy answers but what they are doing is not working.

Out2pasture · 05/09/2017 23:55

but don't assume the other parents are complaining. many might be talking the talk but not calling, not putting it in writing, not following up etc. so don't be worried about ganging up, say what you feel needs to be said so that your daughter (and subsequently the other children) get the opportunity to learn.

Pankhurst09 · 05/09/2017 23:59

She- thank you for being so understanding to 'my' side I'm so glad you are getting the right outcome for your daughter.

Those- absolutely it "is not working" I took an entire day to draft an e-mail as the pitfalls of just using terminology that is not PC gives weight to a nonsense situation to be justified EVEN when it IS not working.

OP posts:
Pankhurst09 · 06/09/2017 00:00

Out- I completely agree, I have every incident recorded and ready to relay to senior management this week.

OP posts:
Out2pasture · 06/09/2017 00:01

i'm seeing this same post in two spots...two treads...

Pankhurst09 · 06/09/2017 00:05

Out- have I posted twice?

OP posts:
Out2pasture · 06/09/2017 00:09

yes one started at 23:23 and one at 23:19

Pankhurst09 · 06/09/2017 00:13

Sorry! I hit a preview and have accidentally posted twice then, can I delete one? Not very savvy when it comes to posting 😬

OP posts:
Out2pasture · 06/09/2017 00:19

only you can report it to mn I believe :) they will be able to help (I hope)

Pankhurst09 · 06/09/2017 00:22

Thanks Out- how do I do that? Sorry, I am clueless 😬

OP posts:
elliejjtiny · 06/09/2017 00:27

The whole class is being treated badly. I've got dc with sn and trying to get support for them at school is a total nightmare. So many children struggling.

bigmac4me · 06/09/2017 00:36

I am the parent of three boys with special needs (all now adult) and am now a foster carer for (mainly) teenagers with behavioural issues. I have therefore had much experience from the "other side".

OP, I totally and completely agree with you and also you are one of the very rare posters who also have compassion for the other child/parents. Thank you. I had to fight so damn hard to get two of my children educated in a special school. It took years and went all the way to court level (the second was quicker as we knew the system) which could meet their needs in every way. All we had faced along the way was professionals who so believed in inclusion. With my youngest son I took him out of mainstream school for a while until I was able to get him a place in the lovely special school he so desperately needed.

Now, some years later with children I have fostered the situation is far worse. These foster children are often stuck in mainstream education, receiving little education themselves and desperately unhappy, and there are no doubt children like your lovely little girl who is suffering greatly too. I feel so much for those like your daughter. It's terrible. These children I care for (and yes love) are given far more chances than they should, excuses are made for them, the education of the other pupils is disrupted, and other children, like your daughter, suffer, teachers too. As merely a foster carer I do not have the parental responsibiity to take the child out of school (as I did with my own) and I go to meeting after meeting listening to the so called professionals who so believe in inclusion. I could scream! I know it would benefit everyone if they could be removed from mainstream school and found an establishment that was right for them.

I hope an answer if found so that your daughter can love school again and shine, and also that the other child is given what they need also. Good luck....and from the other side thanks again for your compassion!!

SummerHols2017 · 06/09/2017 00:41

A really difficult one for all concerned. If I feared for my childs' physical safety at school from a specific child, I would start complaining and if no joy, move up the ranks, class teacher, deputy head, head teacher then Chair of Governors of the school. "The squeaky wheel gets oiled." All the children are being failed here by the system, but if your little one is not coping, you are her voice, don't let their sanctimonious attitude (which some teachers have) intimidate you. You never know, it might be about budgets, getting extra money for a SEN pupil etc, who knows? Remember these days the schools are run as businesses, please dont be fooled into thinking otherwise. If in doubt, change school.

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