to be really quite disgusted with the Church?

[CopperHandle]

Visited Norwich Cathedral and the place was plastered in begging signs asking for donations. They were boasting that it costs almost £4000 a DAY to run the building, not including major repairs which regularly run into six figures in a year.

For an institute that preaches charitable giving, putting others before self etc etc is it not massively hypocritical to run in such a way that is so incredibly costly?
£4,000 a day for a single building... so there are more than 80 cathedrals in the UK - just on this alone - how many people could be helped with this amount of money?!

AIBU to think this is massively hypocritical and, well, just plain wrong?

Niteflights I am not even talking about St Pauls, many cathedrals now charge. And anywhere I have been in just to pray that is free to do so, ALWAYS has other people there praying too. Not all of us like services. Does that mean we should totally be excluded?

The church is the wealthiest organisation in the U.K. (If not the world).

Don't be fooled.

brasty local churches are open outside of services. On our recent holiday we popped into several churches to admire the architecture and they were all open despite no one being there.

Have a look into the CofE's finances, have a look at how much land they own, have a look at their assets.

This was the first google hit I read, I'm sure you'd find a lot more if you investigated properly.
"https://www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2016/05/church-commissioners-announce-total-2015-return-on-investments-at-82.aspx
"The Church Commissioners' total return on their investments in 2015 was 8.2 per cent, exceeding their long-term target rate by 2%. Over the past 30 years the fund has achieved an average return of 9.7% per annum. After taking account of expenditure, the fund has grown from £2.4bn at the start of 1995 to £7.0 billion at the end of 2015."

How do they achieve those interest rates when banks' interest rates are less than 1%

Then wonder why they ask for donations at all, for anything

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Churches are meant to be about helping the worst off in our society, yet millions sleep on the streets when churches stand empty every night. It makes no sense to me.

They should charge people to enter. Why should people trek through an historic building, causing wear and tear and maintenance costs for nothing. Forget the donations, entry fees should be paid as in many European cities when entering old churches/buildings etc.

YABVU and tight

brasty local churches are open outside of services. On our recent holiday we popped into several churches to admire the architecture and they were all open despite no one being there.

And the ones that aren't open are usually because of persistent vandalism or theft.

YABU Admission is free. They are welcome to ask for donations and you can decide whether or not to give one.

How many people could be helped by £4000 a day.

Why do you think people aren't helped by having a beautiful cathedral in their midst? My local church also runs a soup kitchen. It's not an either/or situation.

Hissy not many Catholic Cathedrals around since 1533!

Norwich is my nearest town, the Cathedral and grounds are lovely and are open to the public. I cannot afford to visit other Cathedrals. In my experience, Lincoln, Winchester and Salisbury all charge an admission fee. I'm sure there are plenty of others. I accept that things are free as a worshipper but I have no intention of lying. I love walking round Cathedrals, they are buildings of great skill and beauty. Many of the statues, pillars, rood screens were worked on by generations of one family. Some of the graffiti is hysterical, going back as far as graffiti in Latin in many cathedrals; some fine examples in St. Albans, for instance! It's part of our cultural heritage and no matter whether or not you are religious, they really should be treasured.

RonSwansonsMoustache many churches in cities or larger towns run night shelters. If you google it you will find many of them.

brasty I mentioned St Paul's because it was mentioned upthread as having ticketed entry. Nobody needs to pray specifically in St Paul's, or in a cathedral, that was my point. Cathedrals by definition are in cities, there are nearly always going to be other churches around. I think it's kind of hyperbolic to say that those who like going into churches to pray (I am one of them) are 'totally excluded', just because some cathedrals charge for entry.

Flyingflipflop No local churches are open in the City I live in. If you went in churches that were open with nobody else being there, I would guess it was a posh area.
But then it doesn't matter if poor people can't pray in local churches or pay to go in the local Cathedral to pray I guess.
The traditional church is for the well off.

not many Catholic Cathedrals around since 1533!

Errr....there are loads of Catholic cathedrals.

First pretty much all Cathedrals and a lot of Churches are "listed buildings". If you have friends who own listed buildings, just ask them how much extra that costs them for simple repairs.
In fact most Cathedrals are Grade 1 or at least II* listed, which adds a lot more to costs. A Cathedral close to me just had a major refurbishment, including Asbestos removal and replastering the total cost was £6-7 million. It costs £1.2 million each year to operate.

Norwich Cathedral is advertising and asking for donations from visitors so it can use the income from Worshippers (which probably aren't as many as you expect) for things like Social Outreach and charitable giving etc.
The only money Cathedrals get from the public purse is via the Lottery Heritage fund, and taking that can cause some a great deal of moral anguish and soul searching.

Dothedodah and that's great, but I wish they all did. So many are locked and shut unless there's a service, and it's such a shame.

Yes, cathedrals are impressive historical buildings but I think money would be better spent on helping those who need it most. Isn't that the point of Christianity? To help people in need? Not to have ornate buildings costing thousands a year just to stand empty a lot of the time.

Of course not. But excluding poor people from the nicer churches doesn't sound very christian, does it?

This is ridiculous. They don't charge for you to go to services. They don't even charge you to go in and light a candle or visit a prayer room. They're not allowed to

Catholic church has more money than it knows what to do with... they could fund their own restoration.

Not all Cathedrals are Catholic.

DH works at a local cathedral and the responses he gets for asking for a completely optional donation of £3 per person is ridiculous. You don't even need to give the full £3 - most people give just one straight £3 donation no matter how many people.

Ignoring the religious aspect of these building because they are completed separate and non-chargeable to the public, they are part of our history and deserve to be preserved, just as much as a castle or Stonehenge etc.

Do not hide behind the reasoning of religion if you're using these places as tourist attractions.

People are hypocrites.

AccrualIntentions yes - although they are newer than most CofE ones so probably cost less to run!

I love Westminster Cathedral.

You wanted to visit, you aren't religious and so it was nothing other than a tourist attraction for you. Therefore you should pay to go in just as you would to any commercial tourist attraction. I say that as an atheist who doesn't do religion.

Donate the historical buildings to NT or other organisation who's job it is to care for and maintain heritage buildings. Worship in modern easy-to-maintain building. Concentrate fundraising efforts on giving to the poor/ homeless/ sick.

Pretty sure in the Bible Jesus never said anything about 'And lo, shall you harass my children with posters to give money to maintain interesting historical architecture'. He preached outdoors and had rather different priorities; as should people who claim to follow his example.

RonSwansonsMoustache the point of Christianity is to spread the news of salvation.

So no, not BU copper. It is massively hypocritical. As is so much of what the church does.

I'm not religious, dothedodah but my impression from school was that Christians are meant to help those in need. Isn't that what Jesus taught in the Bible - to help those who were non-believers, or who were poor or sick?

Brasty if nobody paid the buildings would just fall into disrepair. The OP didn't even like being asked for donations but wanted to benefit from the facilities the Cathedral offered. think this is an unreasonable position. If you're poor, then you shouldn't have to pay but if it's donations, not charges, then you don't have to. But those people who do donate keep the places open for those who can't afford to pay.

I thought it was the opposite, that to non congregants the cathedral is free but to regular churchgoers then tithing and donations was obligatory. im a muslim but love my city's cathedral, its a very beautiful august majestic building. i hush my children and feel its sacrilege walking in with my shoes on such a presence of the divine i get being in there. and every relative iv taken over there for a visit gazes slack jawed all the way up, up, up and around. its kept immaculate, warm, well lit, hospitable. that must cost something. butt iv been there over half a dozen times and have never donated. i didnt think that was for heathens to do just their own co religionists!