To still not understand the Diana "thing"?

[TeaCake5]

As William and harry said they were bewildered by people who didn't even know her acting in the way they did. Yes it was sad that she was killed but to hand around kensington palace for days crying? Ridiculous.

Didn't understand the mass hysteria then and don't understand the need for all the tributes at the gates of Kensington Palace this week. I'm sick of seeing articles about her and the tv programmes that have been on for months.

I feel sorry for William & Harry losing their mum but she wasn't exactly a saint herself nor was she the victim she portrayed herself as. I suspect had she lived shed have faded from the limelight by now and interest in her would have waned

I don't get it either but just tune out of it all. As a country we seem to like to indulge in a bit of OTT grief over royalty and celebrities. I find it a bit odd. I could understand people being upset at the tine but 20 years later this level of grieving is a bit much. I was only 6 when she died though and to be honest it didn't really register with me.

Interesting how part of the ... i don't know ... anger/dislike towards her from many posters here seems to be because of the actions of some people after her death (the weeping and wailing ect).

She paid the ultimate price for her mistakes that night. The media and the people out there doing the wailing are the only ones responsible for the OTT hoo har. She was dead at the time. It wasn't her fault.

I remember that week very clearly like so many others. I didn't understand the mass hysteria at the time.
Whilst I had sadness for a life cut short way to soon and in such a foolish way - her seatbelt could well have saved her - as well and perhaps more importantly, two children who had lost their mother, it didn't impact on my life in any other way. Diana and the royal family have no bearing on my life then or now.
I was much more shocked by the death of David Bowie as he did have an impact on my life with his music. I didn't grieve, cry or lay flowers though. I didn't know him.

It was an extraordinary response, and I remember watching the whole circus unfolding in disbelief. There were so many strands to the story, the wronged wife, the loving mother who died in such sad circumstances, the stiff upper lip family (hers) , the emotional family (Dodi Fayed) , the broken marriage, the public denunciations (from both sides). Then the flowers /candles/weeping outside Kensington Palace seemed to take on a life of its own , egged on by almost the first 24 hour TV coverage of a story I can remember. It all became a perfect storm which still has ripples today.

I sometimes wonder whether the image would have been tarnished had she lived, whether she would have learned to harness her power positively rather than destructively. Speculation since no one can know, but I think living as an icon for another 20years would have been an almost impossible expectation.

I think Diana was flawed however Prince Charles was in his thirties when he married a 19 year old, knowing he loved someone else. If I had been her I would have had affairs too.

I think she was quite selfish the way she ignored the wife or wives of some of the men she had affairs with. It was all about her, I find it hard to understand why people would find someone who would do that "wonderful".

bookworm14 - I wonder how the whole thing would have played out if it had happened in the age of social media. It would have been a hundred times worse, I imagine.

I don't know about that. I recon a lot of it would be played out on social media now and therefore not physical. Not physically acting any of it out. ie: less people going down and laying flowers. Weeping ect.

Laiste, I don't have any anger towards her. I felt some pity for her lads. I didn't like her at all before she died so why would I change my mind afterwards? Wouldn't that have been a bit hypocritical of me?

Some newscasters found it very difficult to make the announcement. As in they were almost in tears. Presumably they were intelligent mainly hard nosed journalists. They hadn't seen any tributes or wailing on the street. It was a visceral reaction.

magdalen I agree
Aside from the obvious reasons THAT is why I think the conspiracy theory is ridiculous, she was damaging her own reputation and the tide was starting to turn against her. Killing her made no sense at all and turned her into an icon whereas if she had still been alive I doubt she would be so loved these days

I didn't like her at all before she died so why would I change my mind afterwards? Wouldn't that have been a bit hypocritical of me

Totally agree with you. I was the same. I remember having several conversations around the time of her death and saying I found the hysteria strange and that I hasnt liked her. More than one person commented along the lines of don't speak I'll of the dead/the poor woman's dead. I know but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly changing my opinion. I didn't like her her death didn't alter that.

However I find it equally distasteful to read some of the comments on here about how plain she was

I haven't read any of those, but I agree with what Hilary Mantel said about her in the piece I already linked, when she imagines the safer and more ordinary (and probably much longer) life she would have had if she'd married someone else:

What would have happened to Diana if she had made the sort of marriage her friends made? You can picture her stabled in the shires with a husband untroubled by brains: furnishing a cold house with good pieces, skiing annually, hosting shoots, stuffing the children off to board: spending more on replenishing the ancestral linen cupboard than on her own back. With not too much face-paint, jacket sleeves too short for her long arms, vital organs shielded by a stout bag bought at a country show, she would have ossified into convention; no one would have suspected her of being a beauty.

www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/26/the-princess-myth-hilary-mantel-on-diana

I think this is right, rather than mean-spirited. You can see that she did, in fact, become a 'beauty', but her appearance is all entangled with her becoming the most famous woman in the world, and her status (especially after the Camilla Parker Bowles affair became public knowledge and the marriage ended, and she was cut adrift from the royal family) became that of a sort of sacrificial victim, and after she died, a glamorous dead icon like Marilyn Monroe or Princess Grace or Anne Boleyn. I mean, I don't think it's accidental that she was bulimic (she's so cruel in those odd tapes from her voice coach about what she looked like when she was younger she calls her young self 'the fat Sloane Ranger' more than once), or that her relationship with the paparazzi wasn't entirely one-sided, or that she was intensely conscious of her effect. Those were her weapons after the marriage ended, and she was no longer a future queen, and she embraced charity work and she won. (Could Charles have married Camilla if Diana had lived?)

Though I agree that if she'd lived, the shine would have rubbed off, and was already rubbing off. A perception was growing of her as just another dimwit celeb looking for a replacement husband (and where do you go to top a future king even if he made you miserable?), and her glamour couldn't have been preserved in the age of social media, where anyone with a phone is a paparazzo.

I feel sorry for William and Harry having to relive it all this year. DH's mum passed away when he was quite young and on the anniversary of her death the last thing he wants to do is talk about it.

The country had a right to mourn the loss of Diana, I was relatively young and did shed a few tears watching the funeral.

However I do feel they shouldn't keep bringing it up. I understand it's the anniversary etc but it must make it much harder for her family and those who loved her to turn on the tele and see it

i am no fan of the royals as an institution and was absolutely no fan of Dianas, I didn't care what she wore etc and didn't think she was particularly beautiful, I think she was a very damaged individual and very troubled - and for that, I felt sorry she got tangled up in the whole mess with nobody to protect her (she was so very very young when she got married) The amount of pressure upon her seemed immense, the royals, the nation, the advisors etc. I think it must have been really difficult for her- hence her frankly, repeated 2 fingers up to the them all (the interviews, the leaks etc.)
I broke my heart crying when I watched the coverage of her death though and for some time afterwards was still upset (no idea why, it's not like me at all) perhaps because I worried that if something like that could happen to someone like her with bodyguards etc, and i did feel sorry for the boys- I feel sorry for every kid who's lost a parent- but those boys, to be so stifled by the institution they're born into with nobody to challenge it with them, must've been so hard.

What i will say is, as a non-fan, i do quite like the way the boys have teamed up (with Kate Middleton) and seem to be a good gang- almost normal, as far as they can be. I wish them all well.

I was in Sri Lanka at the time.I remember the shock of the news but then mercifully we knew nothing else until the funeral apart from everyone thinking us Brits should be in mourning.We were in Kandy when the funeral was on,we weren't going to watch it but the whole area shut for the afternoon for the funeral.
Couldn't believe the stories of the reaction when we got home.
The papers were peddling mixed news of her before she died,time to pull down the icon they had built for even more coverage,public opinion is always talked about when we really mean what the papers are telling us.
She wasn't innocent but which of us is.

I remember it clearly. I'd just broken up with a long term boyfriend so I was upset for other reasons.

I think the 'mass public hysteria' phenomenon happened for several reasons:

1. She was perceived as 'one of the people' (she was titled so was not, but nevertheless) because she had a relaxed, informal style she was a symbol of modernising the royals and making them 'more like us'. So people related to her in a way they had never done previously with royals
2. She was perceived to be wronged, both by Charles and the royals (his affair, the stripping of HRH following divorce) and her treatment by the press
3. Her death was akin to the bully/stalker (paparazzi) killing the victim - it's a huge injustice that people felt they saw coming.
4. The 'one of us' combined with the silence from the Royal family/ Queen's refusal to fly the flag at half mast generated a response where 'the people' felt they should display a public reaction to the tragedy - to fill the void.
5. The Kensington Palace crying weirdos are the same weirdos that sleep n the Mal before Royal weddings and collect commemorate plates when royals are born...they were the core hysterics shown on TV. 'The nation' joined in due to points 1-4 above.
6. It happened at a time when popularity of the royals was waning, it was almost like taking a side, once some of the public started it, it became like 'Team Diana' versus 'Team Royal' and snowballed.

I think we as a public are now much more aware of her flaws, failings, infidelities, errors of judgement and are much more cynical about the 'Saint Diana' image that the public reinforced, with the help of Blair's 'People's Princess' speech after her death. If the accident hadn't have happened then and she'd lived a further 20 years before a fatal accident, the response would have been almost non-existent.

Another one here who found the mass hysteria at the time absolutely false and incomprehensible and am deeply cynical about it all being re-hashed by the media now.

She's been mythologised I guess - it started happening while she was still alive, and she was an active participant.

I always think of that absolutely ridiculous publicity stunt where she was interviewed with theatrical runny eye liner claiming she wanted to be "the Queen of Hearts" - how did people swallow that at the time, how did she not become a laughing stock and the butt of Alice In Wonderland jokes?

I agree it is sad when the mother of young children dies, but this happens every day - and has happened plenty of other celebrities.

I was working abroad when she died and an American colleague phoned to break the news to me and was clearly very disappointed that I wasn't properly upset - he seemed to expect me to feel as though a member of my own family had died, whereas actually I felt it was sad for her children but really no sadder than plenty of other stories in the paper every day.

All one big merchandising and media circus.

The only person I know in RL who claimed to be genuinely "grieving" at the time is now a "PM me Hun" FB attention seeker, who loves nothing more than creating a bit of drama and getting worked up, and was a lot like that then too (personality wise, pre social media).

I wasn't especially thinking of you particularly you. I see what you're saying and no, there's no reason to change your mind about someone because they're dead. Just in general it feels as if some of the posts on the thread are sort of attaching the public's hysteria at that time to her list of bad points and lumping her in with their dislike of what went on IYSWIM? It was ridiculous, but it wasn't her fault.

Hard to explain :)

I think William and Harry are using this occasion to have their say about what they had to go through. No child, no matter how privileged, should have to walk behind their mother's coffin to satisfy the public. I was very upset to see two young boys lose their mother but I can't believe the crowds who were clamouring to touch them outside Kensington Palace and crying hysterically. I hope those people are ashamed of themselves now.
William and Harry have turned into two lovely young men. That's partly because of Diana but also Charles. I'm sick of the stick he gets in this respect. I think he did the best job he could in the circumstances and the boys clearly think so.

People pissing all over peoples feelings, and mocking how they feel, or how upset they are when something happens they they deem as trivial, really grates on me to be honest.

But for years this only worked for those with a pro-diana stance, any views contrary to how good diana was were knocked back, people judged for not thinking that diana was the "people's princess", that she was perfect etc.

People are allowed to have negative feelings about a person and about the hysterical rubbish that was promoted after her death.

no one would have suspected her of being a beauty Pathetic

Charles would definately have married Camila if Diana had lived, in fact he would have done it sooner. Camilla was being 'preped' for the public that very summer. She'd had a make over, was being seen with him more in very stage managed ways (earlier that year he'd gone to a charity event she'd hosted, and while they'd arrived separately, it was clear he was her 'date').

The 'red swimsuit' photos of Diana a week or so before she died was a case in point, Camila had a birthday party that Charles was hosting for her. It was being very carefully handled by the Palace, they were gifting bits of info to the press, making sure they got nice photos of Camila arriving in her new diamond earrings from charles etc.

That afternoon, after days of hiding away, Diana went out on a boat in the now famous red swimsuit seemingly to stop and pose for the press pack. Ensuring both of them (or just Diana) were on the front pages the next morning.

Diana remarrying would have solved so many prblems for the press, she only got to use the titled 'Princess of Wales' until she remarried - that would have easily freed it up for Camila. A remarried Diana would make things so much easier.