Girls going en pointe too young?

[endedans]

Am I right in thinking that lately some children seem to be going on pointe too early?

Historically (I'm thinking early 20th century) you used to see pictures of very young girls en pointe. But I wonder if we've gone backwards a little as the same thing seems to be happening more and more now; many children of 10 years, which is debatably ok, but also many of 8 years and younger. Instagram and other social media are prime examples.

Sorry, not the most exciting AIBU.

I've only mentioned girls as I know of few male dancers who dance/ have danced en pointe, and they're very much older.

I think it is better that she takes up gymnastics. If she ends up doing ballet and takes it seriously, I would be very upset if she ended up doing pointe and she'd be upset because I'd pull her out of lessons. I don't want my children getting damaged feet!

I appreciate it might not come to that, but I'd rather not chance it.

Yeah @Believeitornot. Because gymnastics isn't at all risky to a young girls body... 😳

Most little girls who do ballet don't even end up "en pointe" and IF she got to that stage you would be part of the decision making process and could prevent her going too quickly/soon.

You're being ridiculous.

I was 12 and it was a huge deal. I was the youngest in my group to do it.

I think from a bit of googling (and watching Dance Moms) that in the US there are two ways of dancing, one is competition where they will focus on how high your leg goes, how many turns you can do at the expense of technique and the schools that seem to go in for this also do pointe quite young and then other schools where the emphasis is building technique. I was always suprised to dance moms to see these tinies do pirouette after pirouette, but when I looked closely it was always turning one way and with no pull up through the supporting leg, and not fully on demi pointe either etc. (Pirouettes in ballet RAD take ages to learn how to do properly.) That I suspect is filtering through over here although thankfulky not in my area, Any reputable teacher should be registered with one of the dance bodies e.g. RAD or ISDT and if they are putting girls on pointe under 11 then it could be worth complaining to the relevant body as they could lose their registration. My DD's dance school will let them go on pointe around 12/13 dependent on individual child (how many classes they do a week - those doing the vocational exams will go on pointe sooner than those just doing the recreational exams.)

BelieveItornot, please don't worry. Your DD need never go on pointe. You can take all the RAD ballet grades up to Grade 8 without ever going on pointe. They have special vocational exams for girls that do want to go on pointe.

At my DD school the majority of the girls up to 18 never go on pointe. There are sixth formers there doing very advanced dancing with no pointe work.

If my DD ever wanted to join the Inter Foundation class where they do pointe I would say no and offer to let her do some musical theatre or west end jazz or something else instead.

Ballet is so fun and opens up lots of other dance forms. Just ask the teachers at the school what route most of the older girls go down.

Gymnastics is not with out injury risk either. When taken seriously it seems stressful on the body and takes a lot of hours of training.

Ok well I'll have a look then and speak to our local class teachers.....

I'm very encouraging of physical sports and accept that some sports carry a risk of injury. Ballet pointe just seems a bit much to me though.

Loopsdefruits
Part of the White Lodge admission process checks the girls are physically ready to start pointe work; and it is a VERY slow Right From The Very Basics start. Anyone who needs them will be given foot exercises - hypermobile dancers can need help stopping their feet & ankles going all over everywhere, for example. You can also be Taken Off Pointe, but that's Rare unless recovering from injury.

There have been YouTube videos kicking about for over a decade of tiny Russian girls en pointe [allegedly...] aged 6+ but I agree the current upsurge - along with certain other undesirable dance trends - would appear to be courtesy of the "Dance Moms" craze. SO much unsafe stretching it's hideous to behold (in more senses than one...) & you even see vocational adult dancers doing ridiculous things...

I got pointe shoes at 12/13 having been dancing since 4, our teacher was always adamant our feet had to have stopped growing before we were allowed to go en pointe. Still absolutely wrecked my big toe joint on one side, I dread to think what damage it would do to an 8 year olds feet. I did RAD exams and pointe work was never required even in the higher grades, pointe work was in a separate class and grading structure.

Have you thought about ballroom instead?
Competitions and exams and pretty shoes but no points?

Has the added bonus of being able to carry on as a student (big inter uni comps) and as an older adult. There isn't as many similar options for ballet.

Instagram and other social media are prime examples.

Sadly there's a huge "wannabe ballerina" culture on YouTube, Instagram & Pinterest. Pictures made by girls and women who have never done a class in their lives, but get all wound up in the pink tutu thing. Those of us who know the business know it's not like that!

I think you can ignore all the Insta stuff- it's just day dreaming.

Believeitornot when you say this, sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about:

I think it is better that she takes up gymnastics. If she ends up doing ballet and takes it seriously, I would be very upset if she ended up doing pointe and she'd be upset because I'd pull her out of lessons. I don't want my children getting damaged feet

Gymnastics is FAR more damaging to young bodies than ballet. No girl learning ballet needs to go on pointe, and your DD can do pointe work classes on demi-pointe, if you would rather she didn't go on pointe. I was on on pointe from 13 through to my 30s as a serious recreational dancer. I have very healthy feet, with no bunions or misplaced toes. Unlike quite a few of my friends who've never een near a barre in their lives (I'm in my late 50s & still do ballet class).

Gymnastics can:
cause girls to hyperextend their backs, leading to back injuries & pain in later life;
force turn out & hyperflexibility to the detriment of young joints;
cause a series of overuse & over stretch injuries, which can have lasting impact.

Properly taught - slow & steady - ballet will not push a child's body beyond its natural capabilities. If you find an ethical, well-trained teacher, she or he will chalenge & extend a child's range of movement, but not into the frankly, contortionist stuff of some gymnastics.

And ballet teaches: discipline, love of music, attention to detail, trying your best for yourself, not for competition. The work ethic of well-trained ballet dancers is excellent, and they usually do very well at school, as in the ballet studio.

Ballet teaches art not competition.

So think again @believeitornot - you couldn't be more wrong about he safety of gymnastics or the dangers of ballet.

I think you'd be safe enough with a good affiliated dance school for ballet, believeit. For example an RAD school.

I definitely wasn't younger than 13. Very odd (and damaging!)

@believeitornot my sister was a professional gymnast and now coaches.
She was meant to be in the last olympics until she had an injury, she will probably never be able to be the gymnast she was before. I can't think of an injury she hasn't sustained during training.

I stuck with ballet and bar a broken toe which quickly healed I didn't have any training related injuries (I danced from ages 3-16)
I did however have awful body confidence. I wasn't as slim as the other girls (but no means big) and I would often cry in later years after a lesson.

I would agree, there is no need to do pointe at all at RAD - Grades 6-8 are beautiful, difficult, artistic grades with not a pointe shoe in sight.

The vocational grades (where pointe is included) should start out with girls using soft blocks - they look like pointe shoes to the outside eye, but are de-shanked so not designed for going up onto pointe, but to get used to the feel of the shoe and strengthen the feet.

Nevertheless, each year our intermediate foundations (ages 10-11-12) spend hours putting photos on Instagram and the likes of them 'en pointe' in their soft blocks - usually clinging to some piece of furniture - until they are roundly told off and banned from doing this!

My youngest was 11 when she first had pointe shoes but had a year with an elastic band thing to do exercises first and was only allowed to do a very brief session initially. A full pointe lesson wasn't until she was 12 nearly 13. Some of her friends never went on pointe but still did all the grades.

There does seem to be a resurgence of this happening in places like Russia & Asia but in the U.K. it is still frowned upon

Most vocational schools start them in Year 7 (remember to get into vocational school you have to undergo physio etc tests. My dd is hupermobile so had to wait until Year 8.

Her only injury has been when she was in flats.

Both my sister and I did loads of ballet and pointe from 12 ish. Teachers were v strict and careful about it.

Have to laugh at believeitornot who won't let her daughter do ballet but will do gym instead. Gymnastics is much riskier - that's why you have to have compulsory insurance with gym!

I have one daughter who does each. As for technique, I have to say both their teachers think theirs is safer... I've heard gymnastics teachers moan about the unsafe way dance teachers have children do "tricks" in modern etc. For example, I've heard gym coaches moan about dancers where girls in gym do the splits with twisted hips, or do dance moves where they fall onto their knees. These are considered to be dangerous / not safe but I've seen it in dancing. But likewise, I know dance teachers dislike some of the techniques of gymnastics like oversplits. I'm not sure which one is safer - only that I've heard both teachers say the things they consider unsafe in the other!

My eldest did a lot of gym, and I forget how many broken bones (thankfully only ever hairline fractures) we have collected along the way. Although, I have to admit she is prone to it and some of those were collected falling over whilst running on grass!

My friends DD is a dancer and she told me that her DDS ballet teacher didn't let the girls go en point until they got their period????

Well I can sort of see the logic in that readiness is to do not only with technique & strength but growth & development & calcification/ossification of bones which is all linked with puberty.

But it's not a method I've ever heard anyone using to determine readiness.

DD1 started pointe at 15 and was around grade 7. As others have said, it was a separate class from the RAD ballet lessons. DD2 started at 14. They are in the same pointe class along with several others between 13 and 18 but there is a girl there who started at 10 which I think is too young. She is really tiny and skinny and gets up there very easily. Her mum does it too - right up to being 20 weeks pg with her youngest !

Both DDs have passed grade 8 without needing pointe work at all. DD2 is working on the IDTA Classical awards and this next one needs pointe work. She does not find it as easy as DD1 did but it's a good discipline.

Regarding the feet growing matter, both DDs are on their 2nd pair of pointe shoes. In both cases, the first pair wore out. Other mums keep moaning about having to buy new shoes as their daughters outgrow them. This hasn't been my problem...

We were buying new pointes every 6-12 weeks at one pointe. Then there was thecpair that lasted just 2 weeks :(

My daughter dances and her teacher won't start them on points until they have completed a certain level in the exams (not sure which) and are around 14 or 15. DD says teacher prefers to wait until their feet are fully formed and have stopped growing. I'm not a dancer but that makes a lot of sense to me - especially as it's a "fun" style class and not designed to prepare the girls for the Royal Ballet.

What is the minimum age for competing on pointe? I think it used to be around D/E section in local comps. I know under 13 weren't permitted to dance en pointe in a championship-type competition we attended.