To ask how big the jump from GCSE to A Level Maths is?

[HollieBush]

I recently helped young NDN with some tutoring for her GCSEs. I was supposed to be helping her with essay subjects, but one day she came round and was really struggling with a Physics topic so I had a look with her and after that I started helping with Maths and Science too. I got A/A* for these subjects back in the day but was never really gifted in that area and to be honest luck was on my side with those results. I took all arts A levels and then did a degree in Politics and Economics. A few years ago I self-studied for a degree in Psychology whilst working full-time and got a first, so I know I can self-study as an adult if I have a goal to work towards.

I'd really like to take Maths further because I always felt I wasn't a "maths kind of person" but it all seemed so much clearer looking at it again as an adult and I would feel confident about getting a top mark on a GCSE paper these days. I am genuinely interested in learning more maths as I feel there is a whole new perspective on the world out there that I closed myself off from, but will not be motivated without a goal, hence wanting to do an exam. However, I confess to being proud/vain and not wanting to do A Level maths if there isn't a least a good chance I would get an A (I know, utterly ridiculous but am old enough now to know my faults).

Is an A at Maths A level for 'gifted' mathematicians only? Could an adult of a good-but-not-great natural standard get an A with self-study?

Dd got an A at gcse
Then a B for further maths
A for as level maths
And a C for her A level

Said it was so incredibly hard

Nuttynoo - that's interesting to hear and echoes what NewDaddieis saying - gives me hope because my ability to cope with more work and to persevere with something I don't understand is far greater than it was 20+ years ago.

On a friends and family holiday this week but am going to try to find the time to look at more of those online C1 C2 courses to see how difficult I find them (i.e. can cope with fining them difficult but not with finding them indecipherable!)

How did you get on a maths degree with a c at A level nutty? Genuine question since I'm just helping dd with her uni application and I am trying to get my head round the whole process

I second the OU Maths courses which I am doing just now. However I have reached my limit and it's only the starter course. They say you need to have 75% overall (80% and above is distinction) to comfortably go into next level which is equivalent to AS.

Matsh teacher here - sorry if its already been said but are you aware the A-Level has just changed which will make it harder for you to predict how well you are going to do ( i.e. there will be no grade boundaries for past papers for you to test yourself on)

It is a big jump. As a general rule we would say an A at GCSE should mean you would be capable of an A at A-Level with the right attitude. There are now As at A-Level though and these are for the gifted mathematicians.

Good luck with it!

@BitOutOfPractice - I went with the OU in the end because of flexibility but was offered places at many universities including one of the Oxbridges. Maths doesn't tend to be very popular and so sometimes you can get a place if your application is unique (I'm a highly regarded, well connected analyst - most unis would love to have me as an alumni).

Ah nutty, I see! That makes sense! I'm a bit obsessed with uni admissions

Well done on your First! That's a great achievement!

Coming a bit late to this but I'm a maths tutor. There is a huge difference between gcse and C4 which is the highest module on the A level before it changed to linear. I can't understand anyone saying there isn't. My dd isn't mathematically minded (she's going to study art) and I know she would have struggled terribly with the A2 papers. She got A* for IGCSE which I think is slightly harder than gcse.

I studied languages at uni when I went at 18. I did maths with the OU (when it was much cheaper) and got a 1st. I did it part time when the dss were little and it took seven years rather than eight (back at the time when the OU followed the Scottish four years full time system) because I had already done post a level education even though it wasn't maths based at all. It was a long slog especially combined with sleepless nights but worth it.

I think it would be very unusual to do worse at gcse than a level and worse at a level than in a maths degree. I'm not saying it doesn't happen of course but it would be the exception. Ds2 got A at A level with a couple of papers at 97 ums. However, he found his degree hard and ended up with a 2:2 due, in the main, to having to sit eleven maths exams in two and a half weeks with two exams on a couple of days. It's been a long time since I finished my degree so I've forgotten most of what I did but I was pretty much lost in his maths. I would have had to do a lot of revision to understand any of it!

I got an A* at gcse and then an A at a level. I sat four a levels and it was the hardest - I put in a middling effort with biology/physics/chemistry and got aab in those but maths required a lot of work and perseverance for the same result. I'm not naturally able at maths by any means but I was stubborn, I sat and did every question in the text book for each topic, then in the next textbook, then the next etc, then all of the past papers, all of the extra workshops.

I should add, dd got a B for maths gcse and a U at AS level. It's a big leap if you don't put the time in.

Did maths a level this year. Got an A at GCSE ( my whole class had some big troubles with our teacher). I got a B at As having worked my ass off. It was really really hard. Prepare to need a tutor (most of my Alevel class did) huge huge jump but hard work really pays off. Got an A this year. It is difficult but well worth it and it's a really interesting course (BUT I think the syllabus is about to change)

Hmmm... some of these latter posts are starting to deter me... that said, I came top of the year in both my degrees on the stats modules because they were the things everyone found hardest and I was that person who didn't really pay attention and was totally lost throughout the course but thought "this will not get the better of me" so bought a bumper pack of Dairy Milk and coffee and wine and fags and locked myself away for a couple of days and just went on and on at the exercises until I got it. So I'm still trying to assess whether this approach - with the addition of paying attention along the way - would be good enough for an A (not A*) at Maths A level

@Hollie - A Level maths is genuinely not that hard. Just a lot of work. As long as you budget 2 hours of study time a day you'll be fine.

I found it much harder but also much more interesting. Same with French.

Name change for personal info.

My simplified understanding is there's two types of hard with learning. Hard to comprehend (thinking hard) and hard to persevere (grafting hard).

Because there are professionals on this thread it would be remiss of me not to qualify my answer with my (more limited education) background also. I didn't want to 'taint' my answers by saying I'm good at maths. But yes, I got A's in maths & further maths just before the change to A2 and did P1-P4 with M1-M4. (I made the combo further maths instead of pure & mechanics as it would look better on ucas for medicine at oxbridge) I was a 'gifted' mathematician but I was also spectacularly lazy like many other 'gifted' students until I failed an intercalated maths degree 4 years later partly because it was a 'stats focused' institution but mostly my laziness and inexperience with failure. But It changed my thinking for the better and made me grow up. I agree with @Sequence you haven't lived until you've really failed (try it you might like it). Ten years later I went back and got a 1st in a maths degree part-time over 2 years (so almost the same challenge as my intercalated). I have also tutored and am a 'reader' for 2 universities so my opinion is based on reflecting back as well as coaching adults.

The two types of hard, thinking vs. grafting often get mixed up until you look at the context and personalities behind why some people including gifted young mathematicians struggle with the step up from GCSE to A-level. I'm reluctant to criticise the maths education professionals but I think their advice here is a bit misleading (hence the confusion on this thread) because it follows the rhetoric of their profession.

Much of the maths national curriculum up to A-Level is arguably 'spiral-learning' (Piaget). So even with the new format, and the input from uni's, and the new material the jump up from GCSE is definitely not bang your head against the wall hard. However, it still is spirit breaking, social life destroying mountain of work hard.

So yes, there is a big step up from GCSE to A-level but I really don't think there will be for YOU as a diligent mature adult learner.

In the age of instant gratification the jump from short exams with short answers to long several-stage answers is THE jump up. Teenagers really struggle with that jump and teachers (who also have other pastoral responsibilities) don't/can't put off their pupils with the cold hard truth which is sometimes...

it wasn't that hard dear you're just a lazy toad

OP as a graduate you should be used to long exams and long answers and most importantly diligence. As a tutor I'm used to dealing with adult learners who want to study instead of have to study. The difference in motivation is key.

My god son's mum got an A in maths at AS which in the end she really didn't need to prepare for her postgrad diploma in stats. She likened multivariate calculus questions to childbirth (specifically the waiting on ward while you dilate from 4-10cm). Long, painful and boring. I actually think she preferred childbirth

I just spent half my bloody lunchtime typing that post so this is a very genuine non passive aggressive HTH

It depends on where your skill set lies within maths I think.
If you like algebra and are good at it, the jump is not too bad.
DD1 got an A at GCSE and got an A at A level, but loved A level a lot more - she just missed an A*. She did work hard though but also had to work hard at GCSE. She has just finished her 1st year of a maths degree and that has been a bigger step but she has enjoyed it and done well. She is not a natural mathematician but works hard and enjoys it.
DD2 got an A* at both GCSE and A level but was a 'natural' at maths.

Sounds like you're good at stats. I got an A in A level maths back in 1991 with a very high mark in the stats paper and a low one in the pure maths paper (don't know marks but the fact I didn't get an actual answer for any of the pure maths questions was a clue...)

So my advice is to look at all the syllabuses available and also perhaps OU have intermediate-standard qualifications as a step up?

OP, I wouldn't want to discourage you at all. You have people saying it isn't that hard and for some, myself included, it really isn't. However, you asked about the jump between gcse and A level, and this is where I would like to reiterate that the jump is big. That doesn't mean you won't be able to cope or that you will find it hard. That depends on your mathematical ability and your dedication. I'm good at maths but not naturally gifted and had to work really hard to get my degree. In most cases, natural ability on its own is not enough nor is sheer hard work. You need both!

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it wasn't that hard dear you're just a lazy toad

You'll be pleased to hear that this education professional uses that very phrase from time to time
Do you know me?