WIBU to have one small beer at 5 weeks pregnant?

[BlackberryQ]

It's a lovely wedding celebration outside on a hot day. How much harm could it do?

I'm on the fence and you can talk me out of it if it's really a bad idea!

How can you properly assess risk without taking into account unknown fetal factors, though?

I don't think women are too "stupid" to process guidelines that don't advocate abstinence. But they're not psychic and don't know whether their fetus is at increased risk of ADHD, learning problems and executive function issues. If their fetus is, then swimming around in a drug a few times a week that can cause these difficulties - permanently- isn't a great idea.

There's no possibility of drinking 'a few times a week' being recommended as safe, though, and that level of frequency isn't what this thread is about.

Controlling women again. Make them feel awful, it is so predictable.

It's been really interesting to read the discussion.
Just to clarify it was just asking about a small one off drink!

I think there is a part of it being about not trusting women to judge for themselves which is stupid. Already I'm being told not to eat certain things by the couple of people who know I'm pg incase it's dangerous like most of the BBQ food yesterday and then the gateau that had been out for a while. Probably more harmful than a drink potentially but still it's like 'I can make that judgement for myself'!

When the sperm provider, sorry Father has to suffer all this judgment I will say OK!

But they don't, and never will. Women have it tough on a judgmental basis all the time.

I absolutely dislike that kind of thing.

And most of it is from women too sadly, but maybe they are projecting, because they were subjected to these female rules in their day too. Who knows.

I know!! No one gives a shit what they eat, drink or smoke before conception but I bet it could have an impact. It's all on the woman and it's the partners that are always first with the 'rules' about what's safe to have in pregnancy (bitter I didn't get to eat that slice of gateau last night )!

With women it goes for the whole of child raising. With my first I was constantly being told I was doing it wrong by so many mothers of different ages but I did think at the time that they probably had it the same so are just passing it on.

Blackberry,

It is always the woman's fault, no matter what happens.

It seems to be an easy guilt trip to me. But I will have none of it!

Why be selfish? If you wanna drink beer don't get pregnant why risk it? It's only a small beer but it's also a small chance it effects your baby just why risk it

senator
So, just out of curiosity, if you were writing the guidelines, what would you recommend?

If we agree that this is what is known :

• alcohol is teratogenic to a fetus.
• there is a definite dose-response relationship with high level, binge drinking and moderate levels of ingestion known to cause difficulties
• damage from the alcohol exposure can result in dysmophology and/or neurocognitive difficulties. The latter can occur without the former
• animal studies show neurocellular damage following very low exposure
• fetus' exposed to alcohol metabolise it more slowly than their mothers do and it has delayed clearance from amniotic fluid
• how much alcohol the fetus is exposed to following a single drink depends on a number of maternal metabolic factors that will differ from woman to woman
• low level weekly exposure has raised concerns in some studies about subtle neurocognitive effects in some children such as less complex pictures in the "Draw a Person" test at 5 years but findings are inconsistent
• the effects on alcohol on a fetal brain are permanent and can result in ADHD features with executive functioning problems, impulsivity and cognitive impairment.
• children who are already genetically at risk of these conditions will be more affected by any subtle neurocognitive affects from alcohol exposure
• in writing the guidelines you obviously don't know the individual's size or ability to metabolise alcohol or any fetal genetic predispositions.

You don't want to seem controlling of women or part of the patriarchy or overstate the risks so you are going to recommend that it's ok for women to drink alcohol during pregnancy.
Your guidelines will say, "It is likely safe to drink x units if alcohol during y stage of pregnancy.

What values would you assign to x and y?

Trust me it's not being selfish because there isn't a small chance hth.

There's a small chance op could be driving to work tomorrow and be in a serious car crash and lose the baby. Nobody is telling pregnant women not to go to work for 9 months.

There's a small chance the chemicals in cleaning products could have a negative effect on her foetus. Heaven forbid that they advised pregnant people to stop doing house work for the duration of their pregnancy (although I'd be happy to start a campaign).

It's amazing the only time people bang on about things with such small immeasurable risks are when its things we enjoy doing/eating/drinking.

-Exercise, poached eggs, a tiny fucking beer at a wedding. Oh no better not take the risk.

• cleaning products, carrying existing kids around, work stress, driving, crossing busy roads, public transport. People would think you were crazy if you avoided all of these because then it would start to impact on others and we can't have that can we.

Op from the day you get pregnant until the day your kid leaves home people will have a load of unwanted opinions about every fucking thing you do. It turns out mothers are public property and required to martyr themselves at all times. Hence why labour is the only particularly painful thing people are proud to get through without pain relief. It's all bullshit (in my opinion )

Poached eggs? Seriously?

It's almost as if when pregnant your body belongs to everyone else Blackberry
I was quaffing a wine glass of a drink that looked like wine (it was Schloer) with a meal when heavily pregnant, and visitors arrived just as I drained the glass and put it down on the table. I got some seriously evil looks until I pointed out it was juice, then all was well.
I'm a grown up, educated, intelligent woman who can make informed choices, and up until maternity leave had been doing a demanding job that relied on me making judgement calls, which if incorrect could kill someone, I think I can decide whether to drink a wine now and then in pregnancy (and I did - I had precisely 2 wine spritzers in the safety of my own home, in the later stages and bloody enjoyed them!)
I understand concern, and it would have looked like I was really putting them away, but it was a hot day, I was thirsty, and it was juice!
I really resented that part of pregnancy (and child rearing!) everyone has an opinion and they feel the need to tell you about it loudly in the middle of Tesco while your child has a tantrum at your feet because you won't buy them a fucking dancing iggle piggle, remember them?
Hope your pregnancy goes well OP

I should point out I was following government guidelines then, this was before there was an all out ban on alcohol when pregnant, back then an occasional drink was fine. I was pretty pissed when dc was conceived anyway

This thread bothers me a bit because it encourages that kind of anxiety and histeria over becoming a mother.

Some people trot out all sorts of stuff: you can't eat this or not that in pregnancy / you can't drink .....
I've seen people not eating eggs. Or strawberries!
but most of it isn't scientific.

Yeah I've heard the lot.
Don't eat peanuts in case the baby is allergic.
Runny eggs in case of salmonella.
Soft scoop ice cream in case of listeria.
I consider myself to be a fairly relaxed person and batting off other people's opinions and judgements drives me insane. But I do because otherwise I feel like I'm contributing to the problem. God knows what it's like for more anxious people.

I didn't drink any alcohol until 13 weeks but then had one glass of red wine every week as a treat from there on 😊

My mindset is so different to when I was pregnant with my first. I was in a constant state of anxiety that I'd lose her so I avoided everything and then some more! Much, much more relaxed this time. Because it's been a surprise it doesn't feel real yet.

Does anyone remember their biology lessons? The liver removes alcohol from our systems so if you have 1 unit and drink it slowly then the alcohol is removed from the system before it even reaches the placenta. If you went out and downed a few shots in quick succession the liver wouldn't be able to clear all the alcohol quickly enough and some would be passed on. Therefore scientifically it's fine to have the occasional unit at any stage of pregnancy as long as you drink it slowly and ideally alongside food. Our bodies are amazing, not only at growing babies but also how they process the crap we put into them.

I got really drunk at 5 week pregnant because I had a big birthday and didn't know I was pregnant at that stage. My midwife told me not to worry about it at all because it's not something I do frequently and at that stage the embryo was not relying on me. frequency and volume are the problem because the body simply can't clear it out without passing some on.

Oh and as for the guidance, it's better for the NHS to say abstain, not because they think we are stupid, but because of the increasing litigious society we live in.

Trustme. I'd stick to dogs if I were you.

minerva the amount of alcohol in your blood is the same amount that reaches your fetus through the placenta. There's no placental filtering. I suppose if you could drink so slowly that none of it reached your blood stream then none of it would reach the fetus.

Loving the whataboutery on the thread - "I was told to avoid eggs/strawberries/peanuts/other things so obviously ingesting a drug known to malform fetuses is JUST FINE".

I also find it sad that women being encouraged to be scientifically literate about fetal physiology is equated with being controlling and somehow the fun police. 'Cos we know that alcohol is synonymous with female emancipation and fun!

I think the zero-alcohol mantra is down to many people's inability to deal with anything other than black and white terms.

It's mainly about that gap between no evidence of harm versus evidence of no harm.

'Are you craving a beer? If so then just push on through the craving because it won't stop at one beer.'

You are implying that anyone who craves a beer has zero self-control or off-switch and is a raging alcoholic. That is complete and utter bollocks.

I definitely wouldnt do it. What's the point? Momentary enjoyment for you, but possible harm to baby. And you could get the same enjoyment from alcohol-free beer.
Parenthood comes with responsibilities and sacrifices, and even as a keen drinker i was more than happy to abstain fully fir the good of my baby.
Enjoy the wedding - maybe have a juice?

Nolongersurprised our blood goes through our liver before reaching the placenta and it's the liver that clears out alcohol so whilst the placenta has very limited filtering (and it does have some), it has been scientifically proven that a unit of alcohol can be cleared from our blood before it reaches the placenta.