'It brought tears to my eyes to see him changing her nappy'

[user1498726699]

So says my MIL about DH having to clean up DD while they were at the park. The tears were because seeing her son do 'women's work' upset her.

I was at work at the time earning double what DH earnt.

I cannot understand this way of thinking from a WOMAN. MIL comes from Eastern Europe, in one of the most mysonogistic cultures. She raised 7DC in poverty and with no help from FIL whatsoever. She has had a horrendously tough life including not being able to attend school past primary age due to being a girl, something she has always said devastated her. Even now at age 70 she has to wait hand on foot on FIL.

Why would she want to perpetrate that kind of life on future generations rather than be happy things were starting to become more equal? Help me understand!

I think when your entire life has been sacrificed to one way of doing things, it is very hard to accept that it was wrong and you could have had it better.

Absolutely. MIL is firmly in the 'womens work' camp when it comes to childrearing and housework. Because that's the only place she feels she has any control or value. I think it's something to be pitied.

I can't get my head round someone who's had a life of servitude basically thinking that the next generation should carry it on.

Actually I can. Seeing that women do after all have a choice - they can go out of the home and do all the things that she maybe wanted to do - makes the life that she has lived seem pointless.

Obviously I don't agree with that line of thought but maybe that is what it is.

OFFS, is she stuck in the 1920's? 😨

Tbf some of my kids' nappies brought tears to my eyes...

I took OP to mean that MIL is from one of the most misogynistic cultures in EE, rather than the EE as a whole is misogynistic?

IME EE cultures are not so bad due to communism.

I'm from EE. Oh no, it didn't work like that. Sure women were expected to work equally, but men in communist countries were not expected to lift a finger at home. I'm still in my 30s and none of the fathers of my generation would have changed a nappy.

Going to ignore the racist comment. It is actually southern eastern Europe. I was making the point that they were from a different part of the world. It was formerly communist Yugoslavia.

It's not only the older generation. It is still perpetuated now. It is normal for men to slap the wife about early in the marriage to put her in her place if she speaks out of turn or doesn't clean properly! A Sil 'advised' me shortly after we married that I should keep my mouth shut . I never took that advice fortunately and it has caused issues along the way.

It makes me furious to see BIL who has lived here in the UK for 25 years to tell his wife to bring him a glass of water when he's sitting on his arse and she does without comment. She's in a managerial role in an massive international company and is a bit of a hard arse in terms of dealing with HR issues according to a relative who worked for her, but at home she's his meek servant! Another Sil is a teacher here but her DH would sit on his backside talking to my DH when they visit and call her from chatting to me to sort out their DC if they need a nappy change, are being noisy etc.

I had to bite my tongue from saying to MIL that she should be ashamed of herself bringing her sons to be chauvinistic pigs and her daughters to be servants. Just infuriating! Being there and seeing how women are treated even now.

That was very normal in this country too, at one time, user. I remember hearing a sermon from a middle aged man at our old church. He boasted about how he'd only ever changed a nappy a handful of times in his life; his children were all grown up and his wife had done all the work looking after them.

I had no interest in anything he had to say after that.

One nationwide gap in knowledge I've experienced is regarding people who run their own business, which seems to lack in everyone's heads from government ministers to our parents. To make things clear:

The vast majority of people who run a business take home less pay than employees. There are only a handful of Dragons on Dragons Den because that's basically all there are in the country.

No, we don't get Statutory Maternity Pay, nor Shared Parental Leave, pensions topped up by the company, paid holiday nor sick leave.

Just because we might work from home, it doesn't mean we're unemployed or available to make time for you.

We pay our taxes fairly. Because we're so scared of anyone finding out if we didn't.

No, we can't just "get a job". Some of our skills are too specialist, or we have to care for an unwell parent or live in a particular area. Self-employment isn't always a choice.

Yes, our day rates might be shockingly high, but so are the amount of days we wake up with nothing coming in at all.

It would be nice being self-employed was as appreciated in our culture as much as being an employee is. The amount of congratulatory cards when I last got a full-time job vs. the amount of cards when I started my own business went from half a dozen to zero. Don't invest too much of a person's identity in if they are employed or not.

Sorry that's a bit of a rant, please report if not appropriate!

I do feel sorry for MIL. She could hardly walk being in pain from arthritis and shingles but she still jumped up to prepare food and endless tea for FIL (who is in extremely good health and can walk for miles) as soon as he walked through the door or moved from lying on the sofa. She knocked over a plant pot while we were there and was very agitated about getting it cleaned up before FIL saw the mess .

Eh? 🤔

It would be typical of that part of EE, user, yes, especially as there is Muslim influence as well. It's probably similar to the Central Asian cultures I know about. And it's very hard to change the perceptions of what's women's work as it's so ingrained.

Ah, the old blame the Muslims schtick. 🙄

What a backward woman.
Ask her to leave - she's sounds a nightmare and is setting a VERY bad example to your children.

Yep majority Muslim.

A close neighbour died when we were there. Only the men could visit to pay their respects for the first 4 days then women could visit on the 5th and last day only. All very odd.

Made me so angry but so grateful for the UK especially the 6 crumpets with butter I snaffled yesterday as soon as we got back even though there is still lots more progress needed.

It was formerly communist Yugoslavia

Ha! I knew it! My ex was from Bosnia- and the attitudes were amazing. He once told me that asking a man to do the washing up was 'the most demeaning thing you could do'.
he was also amazed I went to my OWN father's funeral.

It's a bloody hard life for women there.

Tbf some of my kids' nappies brought tears to my eyes...

That's what I thought when I read the opening post!

I can't get my head round someone who's had a life of servitude basically thinking that the next generation should carry it on.

What's the alternative? To admit that your life was an enormous waste of your effort and skill. To realise that your life was used up in the service of others who neither value nor appreciate it. To know that you are the victim of personal and systemic abuse.

My mil says the same thing and she isn't from Eastern Europe but another mysogynistic culture. She says it to have a dig at me about why I wasn't - ie when I was working from home and he was on holiday, he would do the dishes/cooking etc. I basically had to sit down with her and explain with great restraint how stupid her thinking was. Conversely she doesn't say a word when her daughter's husband does the housework - apparently sil is more worthy of having a dh who helps her by virtue of being her daughter

No I'm not blaming the Muslims, I'm saying that women are viewed differently in traditionally Muslim cultures. This can also be so in Hindu India and in Catholic countries too. Things that are ingrained don't change quickly.

My grandma had a life of servitude and urged her daughters not to do the same. My mother left the country and came here, which helped.

Some of her sisters didn't marry and took jobs, shock horror, instead.

It's not automatic to hand on a horrible life just because you had one! You can want better for future generations.

Ah yes, the good old:

'My poor son, he has such a lazy wife. Son has to do everything at home, cook and clean..But luckily my daughter has married well, such a helpful husband - does everything at home'

Ah, the old blame the Muslims schtick

This

The last thing that crossed my mind was that you were talking about muslims. I've known a few people like this and none of them Muslims, whereas my muslim relations are not like that at all.

My family background is Italian and things are definitely changing there but my mother's generation were like this. I remember an elderly relative complaining to my mother that she was very unhappy about the (English) man her daughter had married. Thinking he was abusive I asked her why and she said he did things around the house (cooking, cleaning, basic childcare stuff). She felt her daughter could not possibly be happy married to someone who was so obviously not a 'real' man

Ok, maybe I have generalised and I'm sorry. I think the reasons women have been viewed that way (e.g. not being allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia) are not specifically down to Islam, same as in Christian cultures it's not because of the Bible. In Central Asia, women are treated equally as badly in the church as outside it.