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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

DH been dismissed today - AIBU to think they can't do this?

50 replies

winewillgetmethrough · 23/08/2017 22:05

Posting for traffic
Obviously DH will be contacting ACAS first thing tomorrow but we're looking for some help and hopefully reassurance tonight.
He's been employed at the company for just over a year which I know doesn't help.
DH handed his notice in on 1st August but has a 6 month notice period, he wasn't required to work in the office for this but had a business model to complete at home.
He's received a letter today stating that his employment has been terminated due to issues in the model. He's had no feedback to say there's been a problem up until now. The letter doesn't reference any form of misconduct just that that they're unhappy with the results.
On contacting his boss he's been told he's no longer an employee and will not be getting his notice period paid.
There's been no meeting and no option of appealing the decision he has however been told he can come in and discuss the model!!
Does anyone know where we stand legally?
Sorry for the essay but I'm really stressed.

OP posts:

Judydreamsofhorses · 23/08/2017 22:49

Within the first two years the contract can be terminated at any point for pretty much any reason provided it doesn't cross discrimination legislation. Unfortunately, I can't imagine any company would continue to pay someone for a six month notice period if the employment was terminated. I think notice periods can be a bit of a grey area, in that most organisations wouldn't challenge someone in court if they refused to work out three or six months.

Judydreamsofhorses · 23/08/2017 22:50

He would definitely be entitled to holidays accrued and payment for days worked prior to the termination of the contract.

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/08/2017 22:52

ShellyBoobs

Although he has been employed for less than two years, it depends what he has written in his contract. IF he has a warning procedure written in to his contract then he may have cause for complaint.

chocolateworshipper · 23/08/2017 22:54

This may help from ACAS website:

Gross misconduct occurs when an employee has committed a serious act such as theft, violence, physical abuse, serious breach in health and safety or gross negligence. Employers should give employees a clear indication of the type of issues that could constitute gross misconduct, and it is still important to follow a fair procedure as for any other disciplinary offence.

Lellikelly26 · 23/08/2017 22:55

He can claim wrongful dismissal for which there is no period of qualifying employment. This means he is entitled to pay for the notice period under his contract of 6 months

SandyY2K · 23/08/2017 22:58

He should be paid notice. I say this as a HR professional of many years.

If there was a problem with his performance, they should have spoken to him.

They haven't followed any process at all. Do they have a HR department?

I know of one profession that requires a 6 month notice period. I bet they're banking on him just dropping it.

Is this a small one man firm or something?

ScissorBow · 23/08/2017 22:59

Sounds like legal/employment threads would be better because there's quite a few responses which are not based on legal facts.

ShellyBoobs · 23/08/2017 23:00

BoneyBackJefferson

Exactly my point; we have no idea what his contract says so for someone to 'helpfully' offer up that "They haven't followed procedure. That is verbal warning written warning and so on" as words of advice is just nonsense, absent knowledge of what the contract says.

Original poster

winewillgetmethrough · 23/08/2017 23:02

Thanks for everyone's help.
It sounds as though the employer has no grounds for gross misconduct and are just trying to get out of paying.
He's speaking to ACAS tomorrow and a lawyer friend is passing over details of her contact who works in employment law.

OP posts:

Oly5 · 23/08/2017 23:04

I'd listen to the employment lawyer who posted above

Original poster

winewillgetmethrough · 23/08/2017 23:06

Ironically the HR manager reported to DH!!
It's not a small company however it's grown really quickly with one man at the top who doesn't seem to have much regard for employment law!

OP posts:

Viviennemary · 23/08/2017 23:19

According to the GovUk website he is entitled to his notice period unless guilty of gross misconduct eg violence. Sorry if my suggestion he should have had verbal and written warnings was wrong. But other advice too is contradictory. . I agree listen to SandyY2K.

SandyY2K · 24/08/2017 00:01

I think he needs to contact the HR manager and enquire about his contractual notice and under what policy or procedure he has been dismissed.

The reasons in most organisations would be

capability
attendance /absence/sickness
misconduct /gross misconduct

Then there is a 4th, known as SOSR (some other substantial reason)

All of those reasons require a procedure to be followed.

I would suggest that your DH asks for the dismissal to be put in writing. I'm surprised that HR would have supported this, but we have managers who think they know it all... However they'd never dismiss without HR approval and following an authorised fair procedure.

Madwoman5 · 24/08/2017 07:26

If his contract says they have to give 6 months then they are in breach of contract whether they want him to work it or not. Write formally and quote this (after speaking with acas).

PoppyPopcorn · 24/08/2017 07:31

Not unfair dismissal - wrongful dismissal which is a different thing. Wrongful dismissal is not following procedure. Unfair dismissal is sacking you because you're female/pregnant etc.

What does your DH want to happen, OP? He has another job to go to. If he wants the pay he's due for his notice, then he's probably entitled to that but he would have to go through legal process and you have to weigh up the cost, time and stress of doing so against the money.

fannydaggerz · 24/08/2017 07:46

He was sacked during his notice period? They can't do that as he had already handed his notice in. They can however, say he's not required to work the full notice period.

Contact ACAS for further clarification.

Shiraznowplease · 24/08/2017 08:08

My oh worked for a company (he later found out routinely dismissed people just before a year) and we found we had no legal said his coding was not up to stretch (despite using his work on their website) it is crap but hopefully like us the wheel will turn and they will need something from him in future ... like ours did... funnily they didnt get the massive contract 😂😂😂

Shiraznowplease · 24/08/2017 08:09

Typing on iPad so missed out legal recourse.

LakieLady · 24/08/2017 08:09

If he's not fussed about being fired, but just wants to be paid for his notice period, could he just take them to court for the money?

If the contract is really clear that it's 6 months' notice on both sides, and there's no suggestion of misconduct etc, I think it should be pretty straightforward.

I helped a friend issue a summons for this a few years ago, and they paid up within a couple of weeks of getting the paperwork. That was only for a month's notice + holiday pay, though, and she was only about £20k, so not a huge amount to the firm.

Zimmerzammerbangbang · 24/08/2017 08:13

OP please ask on the employment matters forum where you will get proper advice (and call ACAS as you have said you will do). AIBU is not a good place for employment advice and some of the advice you've received is crazy!

Of course you can be sacked during your notice period, of course they can't just decide to shorten his notice period at will and for a lot of senior positions a six month notice period is very normal (I'm on four myself and I'm relatively junior).

What he can't do is argue unfair dismissal (unless he has discrimination grounds) as he doesn't have enough service. Unlawful dismissal is saying that 'even though you have given me notice, it's not 'fair' that you have terminated me'. Basically up to two years employment now you can be terminated on notice at will, the employer doesn't need to give a reason.

That doesn't mean they can ignore his contractual (and statutory entitlements), which is wrongful dismissal as others have said. Yes they could try for summary dismissal but in practice that's going to be hard for them to establish as they don't seem to have documented things right but if they have something in their back pocket it's something they could try.

Employers often waive notice periods for employees because (a) in practice it's pretty hard to 'force' an employee to work if they don't want to and bringing a claim for compensation is often too much effort (b) employees often aren't that productive during their notice period and (c) in professional services, sometimes a move is to a target/client not a competitor in which case you want to keep the former-employee sweet! At senior levels we'll often stick people on gardening leave which sounds great but can have a big impact on your skills/business development ability for the new company.

Zimmerzammerbangbang · 24/08/2017 08:15

Argh - Unfair dismissal is saying that 'even though you have given me notice, it's not 'fair' that you have terminated me'

grandmainmypocket · 14/09/2017 00:05

Any news OK?

Gorgosparta · 14/09/2017 06:02

You were aware this was coming though?

You have posted about this in the last couple of weeks. So it cant have come out of the blue today.

What did the original letter say? And what did this one say?

Gorgosparta · 14/09/2017 06:03

Sorry its the original thread thats come round a second time. Apologies.

Hope you have an outcome.

fascicle · 14/09/2017 08:24

Hope your dh has made some progress on this, OP. It does sound like a breach of contract case, and a potential county court civil claim (which unfortunately would be fast or multi track, depending on the value of his 6 months' pay). Not sure if anybody has suggested this, but if the employer's disciplinary code is in the contract, then that should make it legally binding.

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