Oh crap holiday motorhome disaster- what do I do?

[IHeartKingThistle]

I'm such an idiot but I didn't check. We're supposed to be going away on Friday in a hired motorhome. It's all paid for. It's a 4 berth. I assumed this meant 4 seat belts as it has when we've hired motorhomes from other places. But I didn't check. It has 3. And a side seat with no belt.

Is this normal? I understand that new vans have to have belts but older ones aren't under the same laws. But it's not safe, surely? We've been told an adult has to sit in the side seat. So I have to travel unsecured, sideways (which will make me feel awful) and not next to my husband on our family holiday?

There's no way to get the money back at this stage. Campsites and activities are all booked for the week.

I'm actually in tears. Tell me it'll be fine.

We've owned two motorhome and I wouldn't have checked that a 4 berth motorhome had 4 seatbelts - I would've expected it. I wouldn't necessarily expect a 6 berth to have 6 seatbelts though.

First motorhome was a van conversion with fixed double bed and you could sort of make a third single (for a child really) with much effort too - so it was 3 berth - it had 4 seatbelts. Second one had two fixed double beds and a third double could be made (although we never did) - it had 4 seatbelts.

I think it really sucks that they didn't make it clear it didn't have 4 seatbelts.

I would take a car too. Tbh motorhomes can be a PITA to park when out and about and we ended up doing this even though we had enough seatbelts (one of the reasons we got out of it in the end!).

Can I add seat belts to my motorhome?

It’s not recommended by industry experts. And simple commonsense can explain why.

In many instances, if original conversions weren’t designed for additional passengers it’s not a good idea to think they can be easily adapted to do so.

Put simply, older motorhomes may have forward-facing seats without any kind of restraint. But, they will not have been designed for the retrofitting of seat belts. Even if specialist fixing points are provided in the base vehicle, do note that the seat bases themselves, as well as other aspects of the conversion work, will not have taken into account the adding of additional restraints.

www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/motorhome-seat-belts-time-belt-10291/

The thing is, if its a motor him, and n berth, you should surely be able to expect to use it to travel completrly safely with n people?
If you were planning some unusual use of what you're booking, that they wouldn't expect, it would just be unlucky, but its a motorhome! I think they should be pointing this out, or providing ALL the features for the number of berths.

I do have sympathy OP - if I had planned the holiday you describe, I probably wouldn't want to be sat sideways on to the table without a seatbelt either (although I love colouring!). I would want to be up at the front seeing where we were going (especially in Scotland - lovely scenery).

However, I'm not sure that you actually have been miss-sold or have much comeback unfortunately. If the law states that rear seatbelts only need to be worn if fitted, and that it's perfectly legal to use a rear seat without one (safety being a different matter) - then you may well find that all they need to provide you with is 4 seats that meet legal requirements. Which they have.

I completely agree that saying "all forward facing seats have seatbelts" without specifying the number of forward facing seats is misleading, but it does seem to be factually correct.

So as much as I do sympathise, if the law says this is OK then I would think any refund now will come down to the good will of the company.

It's a large slow vehicle. Drive carfully, be aware and rest assured that the likleyhood of incident is low. I know it's a worry but just try to relax....there are a lot of these vehicles on the road and few disaster stories.

Also, whose insurance is involved? I bet neither yours nor the Motorhome people would cover someone sitting sideways and unbelted. Did your documents mention which company insured their vans? Could be worth ringing them to ask if they approved.
Do you know the make and model of the van as the documents might be available online and probably specify which seats are for travel.

Our MH has 2 front seats, with seat belts, and 2 bench seats in the back, sideways facing, without seat belts.

I asked on a MH forum about the legalities of travelling in the back without a seatbelt and was assured it was fine. I checked it out with a colleague's traffic cop husband, and he confirmed that it's perfectly legal.

Not only have I sat in the back without a seat belt, I've also put the bed down and had a snooze on long journeys. And had a wee while travelling, on a forward facing lav, without a seat belt! I draw the line at making a cuppa on the motorway though.

The question is not about the legality of seats without belts, but whether the company was clear and upfront enough in its information to travellers who are not familiar with the law.

Send them an email:

Dear MotorHomeCompany

Further to our earlier communications.

Have taken trading standards advice, I find that (while, yes, you can indeed offer for hire a vehicle with insufficient seat-belts for the number of passengers in our party) you must expressly inform us, ahead of contract, that there will be insufficient seat-belts for the number of passengers, in the vehicle you will be providing.

This was not done.

It is not acceptable for one of our party to travel 1000 miles without even the most minimal modern safety equipment.

At this stage there are only three possible courses of action that will be acceptable to us.
One, that you provide a different vehicle, from your own fleet or from a competitors fleet, with a minimum of four seat-belts. All other facilities of the replacement vehicle meeting at least the standard and size of the original.
Two, that you have a fourth seat-belt professionally fitted to one of the other seats in the original vehicle. ahead of our hire period.
Three, a full refund.

Please inform me of your chosen course of action.
I look forward to your most immediate reply.

Your sincerely

IHeartKingThistle

(you don't have to say that the advice you were given, about the standards that hire companies should trade at, was given on mumsnet )

I'm so sorry OP. I have had a bad experience renting a motor home in Scotland too and it put a real dampener on my holiday. I wish I'd had the balls to refuse the hire when I found out what was wrong with it (we'd only paid a deposit)

In your shoes I'd borrow or buy a tent and take or rent a car. No way would I want anyone unsecured in a car. If you do have a crash, you could fly into one of your children and hurt them. I'm not trying to be melodramatic but it's worth mentioning. Am so sorry.

Years ago some bench seats in vans that seated three people had one belt.for.the driver and one big one that was for both the passengers. Isnit possible that it has something like that? probably no longer legal

Go with ADish's message - you need to get your money back or an alternative. This also wouldn't occur to me to check.

Don't try driving without a child restrained and don't ruin your holiday by having one of you not on the trip/travelling separately.

If they have such a slapdash approach to safety, I'd want a refund and being able to go elsewhere for the replacement, this isn't the sort of company you want to trust.

Lap belts are dangerous especially for kids, can cause all sorts of nasty internal injuries. I used to have a camper van and rear seat was lap belt only, I made dh travel in the back. So I wouldn't recommend trying to get them to fit a lap belt to the seat, it needs to be a proper seatbelt.

Yes, send dish's message, and keep ringing as well. Basically if you don't go away they will do something.

This is not on. They should very clearly say about the seatbelts. And I expect they know it's an issue, too, it won't be the first time it's come up.

Don't send ADish's letter until you're sure of your facts. People here are trying to help but they don't know the law. An overly-officious letter like that will just get the company's backs up, and you can guarantee they know the law in and out on this: it won't be the first time it's come up.

Do you have legal advice cover with any credit cards/insurance policies? You need advice from a proper lawyer if you want to pursue a refund.

You can by portable safety harnesses from Amazon. They have very good reviews .
It may solve your problems

Agree about not sending ADish's letter unless it's actually legally accurate! - how will that help? They are going to know exactly where they stand legally.

link

the above link seems to suggest that it may invalidate some insurance, also it could be that some seats are only designed to be used when the car was not driving.

link 2 this link is the same

I would get a copy of the actual advert for the motorhome, and contact citizens advice for help, also if you paid by credit card it is possible to get a chargeback

I think you are being completely melodramatic.

How have you now found out about the lack of a 4th seatbelt? If it is on thier website (even if only in fine print) then you may not have a legal leg to stand on as as long as it is written somewhere they will say you should have read all the fine print

I think you are being completely melodramatic.

And I think that anyone who thinks it is melodramatic to worry about the consequences of not wearing a seat belt for a journey which could total over 1,000 miles is displaying a terrifying lack of intelligence but, as they say on Mumsnet, each to their own, eh?

I flagged the credit card issue earlier, but I'm not sure if this would qualify. It's certainly worth contacting them and asking.

And it may be worth telling the company that you're disputing the transaction with your credit card with a view to refund.

Generally I find if you kick up enough stink and clearly aren't going to give up companies pay you to go away.

I just got a chargeback via Paypal for my credit card under 'significantly not as described' - whether this was technically mis-sold in the same way as mine I don't know.

Thank you . Will look into the credit card thing.

I emailed to double check because I couldn't figure it out from the information I had. It said there are 3 forward facing seats with full 3 point seatbelts, and a side seat. I guess I thought that implies the side seat had a lap belt, just wanted to check, and I guessed wrong.

I don't think I have a legal leg to stand on either. I'm still gutted though. DH would just go I think. But think he would also re-book if I insist, but it's a fuckton of money to lose.