To not want my child christened just for education?

[segc94]

I'm not catholic or Church of England. I'm not religious at all.. have more beliefs in Buddhist teachings than anything.
So I don't see why I would get my DD christened into a religion I have no beliefs for?
However I'm feeling pressured off my mum to "do it just so she'll get into a better school", which I feel would be hypocritical on my behalf. Also a bit disrespectful towards the religion...
My DD is only 3 weeks old but I feel like this is going to cause a lot of arguments nearer the time. I've always said I'll let my daughter choose her own beliefs but feel like I'm going back on this if I get her christened.

Don't know where you live, but in London loads of schools with a mostly 'estate' income are 'Outstanding'. A school is good if it offered good teaching in a good environment

London is different. Also stilldriving said "top of the league tables" - not "has an Outstanding from Ofsted"

"I agree with other posters and I think it's time religion is removed from schools. "

I'm not sure we can afford it.

Remember that VA schools are nearly all owned by the respective churches, and are currently operating in co-operation with the state. They are not state schools allowed to be a bit different.

If you to end the involvement with the churches, you'd need to replace those schools or buy up the existing ones.

This wasn't attempted in the 00s when we though the country was rich and the government had more money to spend. I really don't see that it's even vaguely possible right now.

Though when people start shunning the schools, not applying and only attending them when they cannot be offered one of their other preferences, perhaps it will all seem a little more urgent.

I totally agree with you. it's hypocritical big you're an atheist. none of my children are christened, which did massively cut down on our school choicee, but I still feel it is morally right. I also didn't want them being bought up being told being Christian was normal and the default position. This was sealed for me when a relative told.me my children "would go to hell" if they died as they weren't christened. I didint want to be a part of anything like that. it's up to you remember, your child, not your mother's.

Some parents out their children first and sacrifice their beliefs.
Others don't.

I have more respect for the latter - they stick to their truth.

I was exactly the same as you op. My pils were horrified we didn't get my ds christened, apparently it is "just the done thing!" But my parents, who actually believe in God and are active members of a church, weren't bothered in the slightest. I felt like you and couldn't stand at the front of a church lying about bringing my child up in a certain religion that I dont even believe in. Totally ridiculous!

Testtube I live in London, I work in education, don't need the inner city big ups - read my post and the caveats within.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I am Catholic in the loosest sense - haven't been to mass in years except Christmas. But I'm thinking that if my child is going to get religion at school I'd rather be familiar with what's getting taught so that I can talk to him about it, help him engage with and question it if he wants, so it's very likely he'll go to Catholic schools.

It frustrates me how, in Scotland anyway, there seems to be no such thing as a school with no kind of religious presence attached. In every 'non-denominational' school DSis (primary teacher) has taught in they've had visits from a minister. So I'd rather know what I'm dealing with.

Hi OP
excellent school does not equal CofE school or vice versa.
Where we live, loads of schools are rated outstanding. My dc attended our village school, which happens to be a CofE school, and it is rated outstanding but there is no requirement to be CofE (we're not although dc are Christened as we belong to another Church ). No one ever asked if we were religious, the acceptance criteria is LAC, medical needs then distance from school. It has a catchment area covering several villages and as long as you live in one of those villages your children will get in.

I know things are different in urban areas but you don't know where you'll be living when your dc goes to school. We were living in the city centre when dc were born and weren't planning on moving, but did so when dc1 was 3 as we wanted more space.

I wouldn't get my dc christened just to get them into school. I am a Christian, dh isn't. We only had the dc christened when they were 7 and 9 and felt that they had some understanding of the ceremony. So they weren't christened when they started school. To me, it would have been hypocritical to have Christened them just to get into a school.

Paxman is hour dcs school voluntary controlled or voluntary aided though? Vc schools cannot set their own admissions criteria.

I object to infant christening, confirmation, any thing of that ilk full stop. I think religion is a totally personal thing and should be a matter of choice for the individual. I have no problem with parents taking their children to their church if they themselves are believers but any form of affirmation in a particular faith should be made by the person concerned at an age appropriate time and not have it inflicted upon them.

Personally, I think the Baptists have it right in the Christian faith. Only adults can be baptised when it is their personal choice.

My Bil refused to get his sons christened. They ended up paying out thousands to privately educate them as they couldn't get into local excellent church school. I know which I'd prefer!

Voluntary Controlled I think it's also an Academy. Admissions are done by the LA.

Point taken re 'top of the league tables' v 'Outstanding Ofsted'.

And the mistaken conclusions panicking parents draw from statistics.....

OP: my kids have done very well indeed in non faith schools with a high reflection of disadvantage in an inner-city borough.

But it is true that I looked for schools who managed all their children well rather than those that were not. And actually the Ofsteds did reflect that.

For DD to go to our local faith primary school we have to have regular attendance for 3 years at the feeder Church

I didn't say it was ridiculous to raise a child with no faith. It's ridiculous to think that by doing so you are "leaving it to them" - they will have no more capability of making their own choice than a child raised in a faith will have. A child raised Christian or Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist will also make their own mind up when they are older. You aren't imparting some kind of blank-slate status, your choice is still a choice. There is no such thing as a neutral position on faith.

Just being christened doesn't do much for school attendance.

Could you send her off to look into admissions criteria - might get her out your hair for a bit!

I find it hypocritical in the extreme that people who are not regular churchgoers or, more importantly (imo), believers, would have their children baptised for such cynical reasons. Especially if/ when those same people insist that it's morally wrong for grammar schools to exist. And then choose to send their kids privately. Yes Sil I'm looking at you . We did not have either of our dcs baptised, or send them to church schools, however, we did take them to different local churches quite regularly. This was a long while ago, so admittedly most were a variant of Christianity as there weren't the number of local place es of worshipyfor other religions as there are now.

Just being christened won't cut it, as PPs had said. I went to a very high-achieving CofE school and had to go to church at least twice a month for a year before in order to get in.

I don't think the teaching quality was particularly exceptional, but with that admissions policy it means that the kids who got in usually had parents who were interested enough in their education to give up half their sunday lie-ins for a decent time period to get them into that particular school. That was the difference between the selective religious schools in my area and the non selective ones IMO. Kids do better when their parents give a shit about them.

Sashh
RC schools often do these days, strangely the 'baptism before 6 months' rules came in at about the same time as mass immigration from Eastern Europe, where it is common to Baptise at 12 months.
I wouldn't say often, I can think of only 3 secondary schools in U.K. where that is on the admissions criteria. It's also a requirement of canon law that a baby is baptised asap after birth so the modern trend of organising a hullabaloo around the event is more to blame than racism against Eastern Europeans which is what you're implying.
Catholic schools in the U.K. are now full of them, they are often the largest ethnic group.

Exactly get out. My friends did the church attendance though not religious. They threw themselves into it the dh ended up running the Sunday school . They then moved just before their first kid started reception!

I certainly wouldn't dream of doing this but it's up to you, I guess. If you take an entirely pragmatic view of life, then you could do it.

It always amuses me that faith schools prefer of take the children of atheists who are prepared to lie than the children of atheists who are completely honest.

Or even children of Christians whose church attendance is sporadic!

OP, if you can be bothered, I would find out the admissions criteria of the schools that would be realistic options for where you live now. Are the Catholic and CofE schools even over-subscribed? A baptism certificate often gives priority for Catholic schools, but if you are not actually Catholic, I am not sure you can go for a Catholic baptism, and if that is the only criterion, the school is much more likely to reflect that demographic of the area than one who makes parents jump through other hoops. Some CofE schools, particulary in urban areas make church attendance the main criterion, so once you have done the christening, your work is not yet done! As others have said, these are schools that select the parents, so having interested and involved parents makes these schools appear better.

Supposedly faith schools are 'by far' the better schools in my area

Are they really? Have a look beyond SATs.

Faith School favour children whose parents are prepared to attend church for 2 years, donate to churches, jump through hoops.

That means they get children whose parents care about their child's education and have the time to put the effort in.

What would that school do with a parent who is unable to do those things due to illness, drugs, alcohol, chaotic lifestyle?

If you to end the involvement with the churches, you'd need to replace those schools or buy up the existing ones.

I'd be perfectly happy for the number of places reserved for children of the faithful to be proportional to the church's financial contribution to each school. I have no specific knowledge of the statistics, but I'd guess that the church would on average get about 3 places out of an intake of 30. Teacher's salaries are almost the whole cost of education, and the government pays that.