Is the letting agent being an absolute twat here?

[HarrietKettleWasHere]

Any advice appreciated. Not the most exciting AIBU but I'm really pissed off.

Gave notice on our flat. Have six weeks left in tenancy. Landlady lives abroad so we deal with letting agent who has been up until now ok (apart from the time he told us off about the washing up when he he came round to look at the bathroom and when he entered the flat randomly to measure up something saying he thought we'd gone on holiday)

Now, understandably they don't want a gap in the tennants but they put the poky flat with awful plumbing and no storage space on at £1100 (London zone 3) so there's been quite a slow take on it. They made the photos look good though so people want to veiw it. That's ok, we've tried to be flexible BUT the letting agent was texting and saying 'can I block book 6-8pm on Wednesday night' or 'can I do a viewing this lunchtime?' I mean, we live here. All our stuff is here. We are still paying rent here. No consideration to any of that but as we were going to be out of the flat for three week nights last week I offered those. Letting agent could only do one. No takers.

Asked to book a viewing at 9am on this Saturday morning. I said no, (we are out at a party tonight and I don't fancy getting up early to tidy and vacate on a weekend) BUT you can do it when we go out for lunch at 12. Can't do that so now apparently we have 'jeapordised the chances of re letting a flat for refusing to let them in on Saturday)

Anyway, after reading up on a few tennants rights etc, I found the 'right to quiet enjoyment law' which actually means we could refuse viewings altogether if we so chose. I also know that he has to give us 24 hours notice of he wishes to access and we have to give permission unless it's an emergency. So I emailed him quite a balanced and fair email this morning, saying that viewing times need to be worked around us and not the other way around, and offered him a couple of days next week.

He's sent one back and I'm livid but DP is saying take a step back for now before we respond.

Just going to work out how to blur names then will screenshot the emails.

How to respond? I think he's wrong. He states that he has every right to access the property. I am sure that's not correct but DP is worried we've rocked the boat now.

This has been such an informative thread. I'm a homeowner now, but I wish I'd had access to all this info when I was renting. Just coming to terms with the realisation that, historically, a lot of letting agents have ripped the piss out of me

OP, I have a mortgage now and nobody asked us for a reference from the letting agents? At worst, rent for a month somewhere before buying and ask for a reference from that other letting agent? Never heard of that.

When we rented our old flat, we had a list of the inventory with the condition of each item. If you don't have it, ask for one, as they will have to compare the current state of your flat with how it was when you rented. If they say they don't have anything, how will they compare? Anyway, I did a pretty table over a few A4 sheets with everything listed room by room, the state of the item when first rented and the state of the item now. We might have bought things like plates or glasses that broke, in which case it went from "wear and tear" to "new". Everything was really to the same expected standard and when not, it was really just wear and tear. I even added a couple of things that I didn't need anymore, for new tenant. This were clearly marked as my own but left for new tenant, as well. Things like curtains that wouldn't fit in new flat of a duvet for a double bed when we had a king. I printed two copies. On the day of the hand over, I took pictures of every room at the same time that the guy was looking around, making sure he was in some pictures. As he walked around and before leaving the room, I would say "ok, in this room we have X that was previously marked as good, we have estimated it is still in same condition; and this that was good but broke so we got a new one, and that other thing said W&T and it's still the same", etc. At the end of it, I made him date and sign my inventory with any comments or modifications that he estimated where needed, in his writing. He agreed to everything lol. I gave him the unsigned copy without comments. I kept the signed one until we got all the deposit back. It was 2 months, so we really needed it!

I had a landlady that treated us similarly when she decided to sell up mid contract. She kept saying she would give us a reference but 'forgot ' to return forms etc to the letting agent so we could complete a contract on a new place. Eventually I told the agent everything that had happened. He wasn't worried, he said it happened all the time with 'accidental landlords ' . He asked us for 6 months of bank statements showing the rent paid on time and there was no problem.
There are ways around the whole issue of references.
Good luck.

Raina - the machines you can hire from places like B&Q and Morrisons are really good. You need to buy the shampoo separately, and it's hard work (but very satisfying / horrifying seeing all the murky water come out of your carpets)

@Underconstruction No problem ☺️Oh yes, the best thing about renting is they have to fix any problems. Also can blag a free "upgrade" of the property after a few years

If he keeps referring back to the contract which is not in line with law. Tell him to get a court order to enforce it. Twat

He's still had the cheek to ask to show 'a few potential clients' round from 4pm TODAY.

Just ignored him for now but it's a big fat no from us. Knob.

Reply or he will turn up anyway. Just say no.

I've just emailed and said 'no, we will not be permitting any viewings today'.

I haven't read the full thread but what does it say in your contract? As that is what you need to go by

Surely reading the (long, informative) thread would be helpful at times like this since your point has been debunked many times already

I've had direct experience of this "last few months of contract & viewings" business.

Unequivocally you don't have to know a single soul into your home if you don't want to. Your right to quiet enjoyment overrides everything.

The only time anyone has a right to enter is in an emergency - fire, flood, gas.

I'd advise that you change the locks, make sure they don't come in illegally. You're legally allowed to do this (and not provide a key) as long as you change the locks back before you vacate.

Of course they could take you to court for the keys... but that would take months... you'll be gone by then

They need to read up on your rights, you hold ALL the power, they don't.

Allow, not know

Can anyone post a link to a source stating that the right of quiet enjoyment = the right to refuse all requests for viewings?

www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/advice_from_us/landlord-access/

www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/advice_from_us/landlord-access/

If they are carrying out work to the property, then a deep clean will be rendered useless!

The only thing you need to adhere to is the inventory completed at check in. If there isn't one, you have no standard that is officially recognised, so no bar to hit.

New carpets are considered to be 'cleaned to a professional standard' so would need to be returned in that condition

But as I say, if there's no inventory, you don't have to do a thing!

www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2014/09/09/all-about-landlords-rights-to-go-into-their-tenants-property/

And this as well. Although I know lots of people think the quiet enjoyment law is a pretty grey area.

Just email him that your contract is with the landlord not with him. You will no longer discuss it with him but you welcome the landlord to get in touch with you directly so that you may detail your issues with him.

It has nothing to do with him.

Really informative thread!

Our LL has put a clause in our contract about having the whole house and carpets cleaned. So we don't have to do it as long as the house is in same condition as when we moved in as per inventory?

Not quite - if you got it deep cleaned on arrival then that clause does apply. You cannot return the house in the same condition, there's wear and tear.

England tenants - if your tenancy started after October 2015 you should have been given the how to rent booklet or an email linking to it. Please read. If you didn't get it you need to read it online and the shelter guidance on the implications.

Quiet enjoyment may be a bit grey but no sane landlord takes risks with it because the penalties for tenant harrassment are not grey.

Harriet, thank you for the links and in particular for www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2014/09/09/all-about-landlords-rights-to-go-into-their-tenants-property/ - I read through the interesting discussion in the comments. It seems that whilst from a legal perspective this may be somewhat of a grey area (and without further guidance from the courts will remain so), a landlord would be well advised not to risk entering after a tenant has refused access.

There was also a link to the Private Rented Sector Code www.rics.org/Global/Private_Rented_Sector_code_PGguidance_amended_July_2015.pdf which states on p14 that "If the tenant refuses access, you have no right to enter the property without a court order. To enter the property against the wishes of the tenant may be considered harassment." Whilst this code is not law, it has cross industry support and would be a good source to quote at a stubborn letting agent as it seems all the regulatory bodies are signed up to it.

If the carpets were professionally cleaned when you moved in then they can compel you to have them cleaned at check out (do ask for evidence of professional cleaning though, they should keep copies of invoices) but if they were just thoroughly cleaned then you must leave them thoroughly cleaned, however you achieve that

(do ask for evidence of professional cleaning though, they should keep copies of invoices)

The cleaning company is a 'family friend' of the LA so I would imagine it would be quite easy to get a 'copy' of the original cough invoice.....

Good on you op, for refusing the viewing
Just keep doing that and get those locks changed so he can't just let himself in when he wants

What an arse that agent is. Seek out the owners address and when all matters are sorted write and tell her!!

I had to quote the law to our agents to get our deposit returned