to think this toilet system is totally unfair?

[QoFE]

The toilets at the glorified garage service station we've just stopped at .... one for men, one for women (ie there are literally only two toilets not two sets of toilet cubicles. Two small rooms each with a toilet).

So far so standard, but the one men's toilet is just a men's toilet. The one women's toilet is also the disabled toilet, the baby change facility, and apparently also the toilet-for-men-who-try-the-men's-and-find-it-locked (and yes I'm aware of invisible disabilities however given the smirk and wink he gave to me as I approached the door I think he just felt like saving a few minutes).

Why can't the men's toilet host the baby change or the disabled toilet? Why is it almost always the women's toilet that has to triple up and host every additional facility, meaning longer queues for women who already tend to take longer due to clothing/dealing with periods etc. Why??

Horribly unfair, yes.
Instead of moaning on the internet about it, why don't you write/tweet to head office and involve your local MP?
You'll feel better for doing something constructive.

The majority of the time it is a woman who goes to change the baby, the argument you should be making is that there should be baby changing in both the men's and the women's toilets and a separate disabled loo. Why should the men's toilet host the baby change and then lone women have to go into the men's loos to change their baby?

Annoying yes.

However the reality is that generally it will be the mother who takes time off to care for the baby after it is born and therefore more likely that it is a woman who will be needing to use those facilities.

I do realise that Dads can and do change babies too. In the set up you describe both loos should just be unisex and as a man was allowed to use that loo I suspect that a woman would also be able to use the other loo. Did you ask?

Most garages tend to have only one loo in my experience.

Really not worth getting worked up about, I presume only one cubicle is big enough for disabled/baby change facilities. It might be fairer to make them both unisex rather than m/f. That's a suggestion you could make to the service station.

It's a petrol station, are there really queues? I'd use the men's if it was free and the ladies was busy to be honest. It's just a toilet in a room.

If there are two individual toilets then I am guilty, just like the man in the OP, of using whichever one is free at the time, regardless of the sign on the door. They should all be unisex in that situation.

Incredibly frustrating

I would use the mens though if at all possible

But you are right that its very annoying and unnecessary

Perhaps because women need more room anyway, due to clothing/dealing with periods etc?

Why would anyone smirk and wink because they're using a toilet. Are you sure that's what he did?

I'd rather cross my legs and wait than use a men's loo. They stink!

I never use baby change facilities anyway. The germs!! I do it in the car - usually in the boot or by lying the pram flat. I'd rather change baby on the bonnet of the car - or even on the ground if I had to.

Combining women's with disabled is weird but typical of a growing trend for women to be lumped in with any minority group and for men to lord it in their own category.

A garage as in a petrol station? I wouldn't expect more than one or two cubicles max in a petrol station to be honest. I don't think it's right when bigger places put the only baby change in the disabled toilets (Tesco I'm talking about you!!) I always feel bad if I'm changing DD and come out to someone waiting for the loo. And they don't really have space issues and most supermarkets have cafes so really should provide better toilet facilities in particular for disabled customers.
I don't get bothered over small places though and think as long as they're providing a toilet than can be accessed by all, then that's fair enough.

But they could easily make the male one a unisex one and I'd maybe write and suggest that to them, seem as the 'women's is already being used as unisex.

Went to something to do with boats that is more a male thing than a female, same number of loos for both, the ques outside the mens were amazing, the woman were popping in and out the second they wanted to go, the amount of men who Ran into the ladies was a surprise, and they were so livid when a SIA person stood in front and told them no. go use your own loos.

If the men are using the ladies loo, it's likely to be just as stinky as the gents. But men should not use any the ladies toilet if they can't do it like a civilised human being.

But depending on what sort of petrol station it is, it could be that, firstly there isn't a huge amount of room/demand for more facilities and they may have a lot more men than women stopping to use the toilets there - popular with lorry drivers, a lot more men than women drive lorries, so may not be a problem for women most of the time.

I avoid toilets at small petrol stations if I can help it, because of these issues and try and wait until a proper service station if I can.

Lol around here the men's toilet turns into a female toilet if there's a queue!

Don't worry, soon you will be allowed to use any toilet provided you identify as being of that gender. So you can claim you feel more like a man today, and use the men's.

On a practical note, garages can't be expected to have the same facilities as a "proper" service station, even if that's what they claim to be. They don't have the space and they don't have the need. I would expect the disabled/baby-changing rooms to be combined with the women's toilet rather than the men's if space meant it needed to be combined with one or the other. More women would feel uncomfortable using the men's than vice-versa.

Mummy, I wish there had been that system last time I went to the toilet at a boatyard.

Bumped into a man coming out as I was going into the ladies only to find that he had left shit sprayed all over one of the toilets (OK it might not have been him, it might have been someone before, but I bet it was).

Luckily there was a clean second toilet I could use, but I'm constantly astonished at the state some men leave toilets in. I sometimes work on building sites and they usually set aside a ladies toilet. Certain men always take it upon themselves to find the key, go in there and shit everywhere

They should have baby changing tables in both toilets.

If both cubicles have a loo and a sink then there is no need for them to be sex segregated at all and both should show a "male or female" sign. No one needs to be protected from using a loo that someone of the opposite sex has used, single cubicle segregation makes no sense. It is only when there is a room with multiple cubicles and a communal washing area that having male and female separate makes sense.

coriliavijvaad well said and agreed!

the argument you should be making is that there should be baby changing in both the men's and the women's toilets and a separate disabled loo. Why should the men's toilet host the baby change and then lone women have to go into the men's loos to change their baby?

Some spectacular point-missing there.

When they are individual toilets why aren't they unisex with the larger one being the disabled and baby change one too. I would ignore the "men's toilet" sign in that situation -doubt anyone would challenge you. I presume disabled men are allowed to use the women's toilet and their penises don't drop off.

In a previous job where we had new toilets fitted we asked for the men's loo to be the disabled one, as most of the office-based staff were female so the men's would be free more of the time.

We were advised that a disabled toilet cannot be in men's toilet if it is the only disabled toilet available - ie, you can have a toilet signed as ladies and disabled or unisex and disabled but not men's and disabled. So,we had a ladies loo and a unisex and disabled loo.

We were told this was a regulation but I've never been sure if that's true or not.

OP I really understand your frustrations but will explain a bit for you from the perspective of the fuel retailers.

I project managed petrol sites a few years ago and oversaw the transition from one brand to another up and down the UK, the subject of toilets was ALWAYS the most discussed and most contentious.

They bring huge challenges for petrol stations which are often single manned. Drug-taking/dealing happens frequently and baby change tables are often used to hide goods and paraphernalia. Lorry drivers (more so at motorway stations) take prostitutes into cubicles, leaving a sorry trail of mess behind them and the rate of sexual offences reported increases every year. Shoplifting is also greatly aided by the facility of toilets which are of course off camera.

So what is a retailer to do? Their brief is generally to provide fuel, FMCG such as drinks, coffee, booze,fags,papers, mags, grab n go food, comply with all fuel and licensing regs and of course maintain a level of cleanliness throughout what is a non-stop 24 hour operation.

It is incredibly tough to maintain with staff who typically work beyond 12-14 hour shifts and have English as their second language.

Placing baby change facilities was muted but universally rejected as very few retailers felt it was a major requirement. (Most use them as a last resort due to their uninviting nature-John Lewis it ain't) The issue of legally required space to install them was also a challenge.

So this will I am sure do nothing to ease your frustrations but hopefully gives you a better insight into why these decisions are made.

We were advised that a disabled toilet cannot be in men's toilet if it is the only disabled toilet available

Maybe it's because disabled ladies also get periods and so need a sanitary bin?

Perhaps because women need more room anyway, due to clothing/dealing with periods etc?

Since we never get any more room than the men, I am pretty sure this is not the reason why.

Having the baby change in the women's toilets is stereotyping, but will work for most people.

There is, however, no fucking reason at all to make the women's toilet the disabled toilet.

We were advised that a disabled toilet cannot be in men's toilet if it is the only disabled toilet available - ie, you can have a toilet signed as ladies and disabled or unisex and disabled but not men's and disabled.

What's the logic there? Men with disabilities are unmanly anyways and can therefore use the ladies' ... or what?

It'd be logical if the only disabled toilet could not be located within the toilet for either sex, for obvious reasons, but just not in the men's, that makes no sense whatsoever.