Why do people fear Home Educators so much?

[sebumfillaments]

Not a TAAT but inspired by the other thread, I was stunned by the level of vitriol aimed at home education. Is it all borne from fear and ignorance?

Home Ed isn't about replicating school. And education isn't (in our case) about gaining qualifications from an institution to increase their value in the workforce!

So why so much animosity?

I get a bit fed up of the "if you don't HE, you are just sheep" stuff too...

Kids can go to school and still gain education from their family, just because we have full time jobs and abrogate responsibility for the repetitive and knowledge based aspects of education to "school" does not mean we sheeple don't provide a "full and enriching education" to our kids too.

Can'tkeepawayforever

"I think you raise a really interesting point. If poorer and poorer provision for those who 'don't fit the mould' is offered in mainstream schools - for reasons of money and high stakes accountability for results in the form of league tables, as well as a shortage of Special School places - is driving parents to home educate as a 'last resort' (rather than as a first choice from conviction), is our energy / money (as a society) actually best spent on improving in-school provision, rather than seeking to develop a complex system of oversight for HE?"

Absolutely. That's where the focus should be, but that change takes years and of course in between, our own children are floundering. My child's head was quite open about how SEN kids were a drain on resources and actively discouraged them, because they weren't aligned with school targets. In the meantime the overall results and attendance go up as the SEN kids leave, and the head gets a pat on the back for running a "successful" school.

I don't 'fear' home educators but I think there is more need of observation (don't want to say control) that the children educated at home are actually educated and physically well.

I think there are key areas that are sometimes neglected by he parents, like physical education/exercise).

Serf, The only other obvious point I would make - from my own experience - is that schools, however similar they seem 'on paper' can be hugely different in practice. DS's two primaries were pretty similar on paper - 'Good' state primaries, one rather larger than the other, one serving a medium income large village, one serving a mixed area of a town. How they coped with DS was extraordinarily different.

However, if I had not chosen to send DS back into school, and had based my view of 'the whole school sector' on his first school, then my views on schools would be very different and very much more negative.

I don't fear it however I do have concerns about it.

I only know one home educator. Her 'curriculum' looks fun and engaging, her child seems to enjoy it and get a lot of it.

Her child can multiply great numbers and spell long words.

Her child struggles with basic maths processes and syntaxes and phonetics and appears to have huge gaps in her basic literacy and numeracy knowledge.

I also worry about the safeguarding aspect.

I know two adults who were home educated. Both have struggled in the work place, not only finding jobs due to lack of qualifications but also with work place interactions and expectations.

They also struggle socially, particularly making and retaining friends.

It's only 2 people and they could just be oddities.

I can see why home educating children is appealing though, especially with all the tests and assessments they go through.

I know I couldn't do it though, I need to go out to work for my own sanity.

"Considering how many HEed DC are autistic, dyslexic, dyspraxic, anorexic, mentally ill etc., and considering the hard struggle to get some of those needs met in mainstream education in the current climate, one would have to be very intolerant indeed to be irritated by any "one size fits all" point being made."

While I totally agree with this, I've had the same "one size fits all" thinking from He'eding friends. One in particular was adamant that because my dd had MH issues and was disabled, HE had to be the right solution for her.

In fact, it was precisely because of the way that her individual problems affected her as an individual that I knew she would not survive HE. Because autistic children, disabled children, children with MH issues are all individuals. As a parent, you try to meet their individual needs in the way that is best for them.

Dd couldn't cope with the unstructured environment that is part of much HE'ing; she couldn't cope with having to make her way to HE groups (no disabled transport and I don't drive); she couldn't cope with the freedom and amount of independence required; unschooling was too scary for somebody with her MH issues; and neither of us could cope with more closeness than was already enforced on us by her condition.

But I got a lot of "oh, she would be so much happier if you could just HE her"- and met with so little understanding when I tried to explain that the fact that she had SN did not mean she had the same needs as any other given child with SN.

I just wish everybody would be more tolerant of everybody else.

My child's head was quite open about how SEN kids were a drain on resources and actively discouraged them, because they weren't aligned with school targets. In the meantime the overall results and attendance go up as the SEN kids leave, and the head gets a pat on the back for running a "successful" school

This in a nutshell really - the focus is on hitting targets, not on educating all children, and in meeting those targets a significant proportion of children's education is actively harmed. It'd be funny if it wasn't so bloody tragic. It's Kafka esque :(

Resources need to go into making sure ALL children get the best education they can. That's very expensive. But it's less expensive than dealing with the consequences down the line.

Also agree with the poster above who makes the point that good oversight has largely removed the worst of the boarding school abuses. I went to uni with several people from various notable schools who had a rough time of it (North Yorkshire school run by monks and beginning with A in particular.)

The concern needs to switch from meaningless metrics to real genuine care for each child's safety and education, by oversight and by resourcing correctly.

Good to see a thread on this that's civil and respectful by the way👍

The thing is all the time the government is hung up on SATs being the be all and end all of a good school then schools aren't going to want those kids that need extra help at extra cost to drag their results down.

I think I could have made a decent enough job of home schooling my sons but they would totally have missed out on the social side of things, the camaraderie of being in a particular group, going to collect your exam results with a group of people who were in the same boat as them (and being supportive to the friends who had not done very well). DS2 would never have discovered his creative talents if he had not gone off on a teacher arranged work placement he didn't really want. His little group of friends call themselves "The Clan" and they have been a real part of his school based education.

Could someone point me to the thread which has inspired this one?

Then imagine reading someone, on a thread happily broadcasting how fabulous the education you are paying for is for her children

Yes. The principle of universal free education and children having a right to an education is a good one. That is what I said was good and we were lucky to have. Or would you suggest that we dump that idea just because you feel HE is better for your child?

This sums up the attitude of HE'ers which piss so many people off. You do realise before we had universal education we had loads of illiterate, innumerate children in poverty unable to better themselves or even get involved with politics to better their lot don't you? That's what many poor countries still have.

Not the hoardes of unschooled astrophysicists who followed their passion that some people seem to imagine.

We've been lucky not to really have any bad comments etc, except for one lady (in 2.5yrs) who declared upon meeting the DCs that they were missing out by not going to school. Other than that people have just been politely interested or "oh ok", with the occasional "wow I would never have the patience" type comment (to which I usually reply "I'm not sure I have either" :o)

We get a lot of questions like "but what about SATs", "how do they make friends" etc. But I don't object to that at all, they are reasonable things to ask and people are interested and willing to find out about something they've not encountered.

TBH, HE isn't going absolutely perfectly for us right now - but in our case it is undeniably better than school for my autistic DCs, who were bullied and struggling in school for many reasons, with no support. DD's mental health was suffering so badly that there was really no option, and I have watched her healing and growing in confidence since she left school - absolutely no question it was the right choice for her.

Both DCs are so much more enthusiastic about learning now, they read more non-fiction and are always talking about science and history in particular. I think for them it's because they have more freedom and they aren't struggling in a busy overwhelming classroom. We can take our time more which for them (especially DD who possibly has LDs) is vital. They felt stupid at school.

But most surprisingly, their social life is far, far better since they became HE. I can't deny I was worried about that aspect (as someone who struggles socially myself) when we decided to HE, which is why I never object to people asking me "but how do they socialise" :). There have been issues with one local HE child bullying others, which had a huge impact on DD, so that's definitely not unique to school. Otherwise, it has been a revelation - the DCs have numerous healthy friendships at last.

We are very lucky that there's a huge thriving HE community here and we are spoilt for choice about activities, workshops etc. They do lots of HE-specific stuff as well as regular after school clubs.

My DCs are still junior age but there are heaps of classes for GCSE study, DofE type things etc so when we get to that stage there are plenty of options to help them get the qualifications they need and want.

• Anyone answer my question?

Carrie

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3008172-Fucking-home-schooling

YOU realise that there are children in the uk who do NOT have access to your described free and fabulous education? Are you reading ANY of the reasons people HE.

It's very alienating being an aspie family sometimes isn't it?

All of these querulous, superior voices telling you that your experience "JUST DOESNT HAPPEN, IT'S NOT THE CASE, YOU'RE FAMILY ISN'T NORMAL."

Well yes it does, yes it is, no we're not. (But were perfectly happy as we are as long as we can secure the minimum we need.)

Sorry for pissing on your assumptions by existing.

This in a nutshell really - the focus is on hitting targets, not on educating all children

YES 👏👏👏

The immense pressure I saw, when working at a mainstream school, from the teachers to make sure the children hit their targets (especially when it came to SATS) was unbelievably shocking !

I have genuinely never heard a home edder refer to sheeple, or to that concept.

thanks serf

I haven't rtft, so apologies if some of my comments have already been said.

My friend HE her DCs and I feel that the children are missing out on several counts. They only mix with children 'like them' - that are either hom ope schooled themselves, or participate in the same games or sports. Life isn't like that; we have to learn to rub along with all sorts of different people, with different backgrounds, values, opinions etc. These two DC that I know have also developed an air of superiority, which may or may not of come from their schooling.
HE children are not exposed to the same learning situations as other children - the same range of teachers, or subjects etc. They are having to employ specialist teachers to get them through exams, which to my mind rather negates the purpose of HE in the first place.

zzzz. So basically what your saying is that you are offended by me saying that a universal child's right to an education is a good thing. And that our system is comparatively good.

FFS. Peak Mumsnet. Saying children have a right to an education is offensive.

I have genuinely never heard a home edder refer to sheeple, or to that concept.

Me neither. In fact we are all so busy pumping each other for information on stuff that's going on that we can get out kids involved in that there's little time to discuss anything else and that's the truth. Honestly not one Home Ed person I know could care less about people choosing school for their kids. If that argument does ever come out I would lay money on it being a defensive one.

So basically what your saying is that you are offended by me saying that a universal child's right to an education is a good thing. And that our system is comparatively good.

No she's offended by you harping on about how great it is to the multiple parents who have just described how their children have been denied access to that right.

And Serf considering this is all referring back to a post which specifically said I wasn't referring to children with disabilities or social problems that's entirely irrelevant.

And to be honest, I'm wondering how people with the inability to understand that simple concept think that they're equipped to HE.