To think it's a disgrace that the UK still doesn't add folic acid to flour?

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

I'm a long-term obsessive user of the conception forums and I was a bit shocked this morning to see two separate posts in which it was clear that posters thought the advice to take folic acid before pregnancy was to help you conceive (and therefore not important if you weren't having problems there) rather than its actual purpose: to lower the risk of birth defects. That made me a bit curious about how many women take it, and I was shocked to find how few it is (fewer than a third): www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/19/folic-acid-less-third-pre-pregnancy-guidelines-spina-bifida. The worst part, I think, is this:
The study also showed strong ethnic variations, with only 17% of Afro-Caribbean women, 20% of south Asian women and 25% of east Asian women taking folic acid, compared with 35% of white Caucasian women.

Just 6% of teenagers under 20 attending the antenatal clinics had taken the supplements, while 40% of older women aged 35 to 39 followed the guidelines.

Presumably a large part of that with the teenagers is the likelihood that their pregnancies were unplanned, but the health inequality here is really awful - it shouldn't be the case that some women and babies are so much more at risk of suffering these problems than others, whether through a lack of knowledge or through being less likely to plan their pregnancies.

I think we could do with a stepped-up public campaign on folic acid, but that obviously doesn't help women with unplanned pregnancies, and realistically no campaign is ever going to get across to everyone.

To me the argument for putting folic acid in flour, as they do in the US, is incredibly clear-cut. And yet the government decided against this: www.ifglobal.org/en/37-temp-news/4768-uk-government-says-no-to-mandatory-fortification-of-flour-with-folic-acid-2. So - and this is a genuine question - am I missing something? What's the argument against?

"If the USA levels of folic acid fortification from 1998 onwards had been adopted in the UK, an estimated 2014 fewer NTD pregnancies would have occurred."
From this 2015 paper

2000 seems a lot... but I can imagine that even if there is a very weak link between folic acid and cancer you could easily rack up 2000 extra cancers in 17 years... and how many cases of B12 deficiency missed leading to illness in the same period (admit I don't know much about that)... How do you square this up.

I don't want *anything adding to my food. At all!

You are quite clearly determined not to get down from your soapbox and will not be swayed. So good luck with your quest.

I love that you posted this goodbye message and then posted again. But actually, this thread has been really interesting and eye-opening for me. My initial reaction was outrage that the government rejected something recommended by the BMA, Royal College of Obstetricians and the Food Standards Agency, but I now understand much more why they did this.

I love that you posted this goodbye message and then posted again.

Oops, sorry, scratch that, my mistake! I confused you and the next poster.

"I imagine it would be as beneficial as it is in the US or Chile,"

The article* linked to early in thread, calculates a 14% reduction, which is lower than the 20-30% figures promoted for USA & Chile.

*Open access article, Wolfson Institute. I want to know who paid the Open Access charge & for the researchers' time .

Medschool - they estimate that it would have reduced by 21% (like US), but that it dropped anyway by 7% (which they don't consider statistically significant), which is where that 14% figure comes from - so they do think the outcome would have been like the US.

Yes I do oppose any fortification of any food - people can get everything they need from a healthy, balanced and varied diet, and should absolutely take responsibility in doing so. Leaving it up to the food industry to pump food with synthetic crap with little regard for long term effects because people can't grasp healthy eating is not fair on the rest of the population who do get it.

What are the figures.

So if it reduced it by 21% here? How many babies would thay save each year?

What about women who change the cat litter when they are pg but dont know they are pg?

Or women who dont they are pg eating prawns and getting sick?

What are we going to sneak into food to make sperm is better?

These sorts of things are saying 'fuck everything else. Womens jobs are to have babies so lets gear everytging towards that. Its masks b12 defiency? Fuck it, womens health doesnt really matter.'

And there is a fuck ton of stuff that the US does that i dont want to happen here.

It's funny how scientists often ridicule people who take a multivitamin every day, yet they want to fortify food. If everyone took a multivit every day there would be fewer neural tube defects.

There's a doctor called Mark Porter who on a radio show talked about this issue, but in a newspaper article wrote he was going on a low carbohydrate diet. A low carbohydrate diet means no flour. These diets are very popular now, so how are they going to get their folate?

I wonder does everyone need folic acid supplemented or are we all supplementing due to people with poor diets?

Folate is thought to mask B12 deficiency, which can lead to neurological problems in undiagnosed B12 deficiency - usually elderly patients who put it down to old age

Can someone say a bit more about this, please? I have B12 deficiency (currently treated with jabs every 10-12 weeks) and have recently started taking folic acid because we're planning to TTC soon. Should I not take it?

I think it's just a bit too nanny state. It's like no sweet treats in lunch boxes despite the thousands of parents who have baked healthy cake snacks and are including those in a very healthy balanced meal. And again, the no authorised days off in term time because as a nation we have too low attendance and too high casual missing of days here and there with a sniffle or because parents can't be bothered to get out of bed.
I don't want fluoride in my water either. I brush my teeth twice a day and teach my children to do the same. If you don't then you should deal with the consequences yourself.
I knew about the need for folic acid years before I started trying for a baby. My teenage sons both know about it.
People need to take responsibility for themselves and their own health and wellbeing.
I try and stay away from white bread and white flour as much as possible anyway.
But I'm sick of ridiculous over arching government initiatives that don't tackle the real problems just throw a blanket over everyone hoping to gain some form of herd immunity.

I do eat white bread but only because I have to eat a lowish fibre diet. It's home made so I know exactly what's in it but I wish it wasn't fortified.

Why should the elderly (as that's who will be mainly affected) have to suffer just because some people can't be bothered?

YABVU.

I'm already sick of struggling to get ahead in a career with a glass ceiling because men are scared I'll get pregnant and go on maternity leave for a year.

I don't need women making the same damn assumption and trying to feed me folic acid! I can just picture the suits now watching me eat a sandwich al desko and making even more ridiculous assumptions about how I'm eating bread because I'm ready to push babies out.

Women who are planning to get pregnant will take folic acid. And out of the ones who aren't planning to get pregnant - not sure how many of them will keep their babies.

Women who are planning to get pregnant will take folic acid.

Again, this isn't currently happening. I thought this too, but less than a third of pregnant women did take folic acid before conceiving.

"If you don't then you should deal with the consequences yourself"
As should your children obviously. If they're not doing it right then that's their problem.

YABU

Excess folic acid has been linked to increased risk of autism.

It's a very poor way of dosing people. The amount of folic acid that any one person gets will vary tremendously according to their diet. And those who need it most may not bother with additives because they are getting enough even if they don't eat much bread.

My children are under my care. By the time they leave my care I expect them to be able to take responsibility for their own sexual and reproductive health and their own oral hygiene.
These government campaigns are about saving the NHS money in the long run. But it's always softly softly let's just add this then we don't have to target it or blame individuals.
If you want a baby you need to prepare both physically and financially. Our current pshce curriculum totally shys away from teaching this. Be explicit with this message to teenagers. Let them really know that life is shit in crap council accommodation with a screaming baby and no money. That there body need to prepare itself for pregnancy and that pregnancy and BF will change the shape of their bodies and massively curtail their lives so they wait.

What we don't do and we really should do it separate teaching about sex from teaching about pregnancy and parenthood.

We need to teach them that sex is fun and amazing and wonderful but it only stays that way if they take responsibility.

Ask them who they think is going to want to have sex with the flabby teenager with the crying baby whose skin is bad because she can't afford make up and doesn't get any sleep.
Make stronger jaws to ensure fathers step up and don't get away with paying nothing towards the upkeep of their child.
I have often seen 6th form girls stay home to raise the baby instead of going to university whilst the baby's father still goes and then when he's ready, both him and his bloody parents want to become involved in that baby's life. If either of my boys came home and told me they had got a girl pg then I would be telling them they needed to stay home and step up instead of carrying on to university andliving it up like the boys who were more careful.

"Women who are planning to get pregnant will take folic acid."

@LisaSimpsonsbff Again, this isn't currently happening. I thought this too, but less than a third of pregnant women did take folic acid before conceiving.

So what? These are grown bloody adult women FFS. They have the intelligence and ability to seek out the information they need for themselves at the touch of a button.

We don't need to spoon feed them (literally, with this bonkers flour idea), they need to step up and take responsibility for their own bodies and personal wellbeing, as well as that of any child they may conceive.

This is just entirely absurd.

I wonder does everyone need folic acid supplemented or are we all supplementing due to people with poor diets?

It's very hard to get the amount of folic acid recommended for pregnancy fron diet alone. That's why pregnant women/women trying to conceive should take supplements.

That's their responsibility though and I don't think flour should be fortified.

@Redredredrose Don't panic as you have already been diagnosed with B12 deficiency so you're fine to take folic acid and in fact folic acid/folate is essential for you to properly absorb the B12 as they work together. The issue with folic acid is that high amounts of it can mask the affect of B12 on blood cells and therefore prevent accurate diagnosis of a B12 deficiency which is massively underdiagnosed/undertreated anyway and can be very serious but once diagnosed you are fine.

Don't agree with adding to flour for the reason above and also as some people are intolerant to the artificial form. Also believe it's a slippery slope away from natural foods.

Assuming all these pregnant women are adults, it's for them to decide whether to take folic acid supplements or not. I totally disagree with adding stuff to food and the US is the last place I would go to for food standards. Chlorinated chicken anyone?