To be so open about death with dd4

[CuppaSarah]

We've just moved house and now we regularly pass a graveyard. My 4 year old dd has always been fascinated by death, skeletons, ghosts etc. So recognising gravestones but not knowing what they are, inevitably she starts asking about them.

I was honest and told her it was where people who had become very old or unwell had been buried. She was worried about them being stuck underground alone, so I explained when our bodies die our minds stay alive and go somewhere else, but we're not sure quite where. She pressed further so I suggested our minds might go to heaven, or into a mummies tummy or maybe even float into space.

She thought this was amazing and has been asking excitedly about it a lot. She keeps asking me to draw gravestones and people crying. Pretending to die and become a baby. It's her main topic of conversation, and while every now and then she gets too into the pretending to die game and gets upset, usually she's very happy and interested while talking about it. I think she's trying to figure out what happens to our minds and why does dying make people cry.

I've been perfectly happy helping her work through and explore the topic in what I felt was an age appropriate way, but my mum is horrified she knows about death and thinks she's way too young and that it's bad. What does the mumsnet jury think? Is it inappropriate or ok? I should add my gut says she'd be anxious about it if I avoided her questions.

I think death is natural and you were honest about it with her. I wouldn't personally have said that anything survives after death but if that's your belief then fair enough.

We told the kids after my best friend died that "what makes you you" (i.e. The soul for want of a better word) doesn't stay in your body, it goes to heaven (the kids believe, I don't any more). When my mum died recently we said the same.
DD4 can't understand why grannie can't just get back in her body and wake up again. She's really struggling with the idea, and wants to get a ladder to climb to heaven to rescue grannie. So I think that it's good that you've been so open with your DD before any loss, so she'll have an understanding of it.

I think its fine but I suggest that you also make it clear that that it's not a general topic of discussion. There will be people (including children) out there whose real experiences of bereavement mean that its not a subject for an interesting chat about decomposition, the reality of heaven etc.

Thank you for the opinions everyone.

BarbarianMum thank you so much for that advice, it's something I hadn't thought of as the chat hasn't left the house yet. I'll make sure to discuss it's something to talk about at home not out and about.

I have a similar thing with my DS, also 4. She's mega into bugs and animals, and in the process of rescuing fledglings and snails etc we've had to deal with death a couple of times. Also both DHs and my dad died while I was pregnant with her and she's asked why she doesn't have a grandad, and we explained that they died before she was born. It's a curious age, our way of tackling it has been to explain that when someone/thing is very very poorly or very very old, is body sometimes can't carry on living, so it dies, but its spirit/soul carries on living (i.e. The wee birdy still flies in the sky with its friends, we just can't see it).
It's not perfect, but it mostly seems to satisfy her. We have an 11 year old golden retriever and two elderly mothers who don't keep the best health, so for us it's been helpful to introduce her to the concept of death relatively gently with birds and insects before she has to confront it 'for real' with someone/something she has real emotional attachment to. It's a bloody minefield, but I don't think it's inappropriate as long as you also teach that some people can get easily upset talking about dying, so to be respectful by not talking about it all the time.

We had a family friend die when I was your Dds age. I don't think I was as fascinated as she is but I asked and had it explained and accepted it. Might have been harder if it was a close relative though. I think it's good you talked to her, although she might struggle with how she feels if someone close dies?

I think a lot of children around this age 'discover' death and find it terribly interesting. My just-turned-5 year old is currently fascinated by death, and particularly in the idea of reincarnation. Having said that, I am an atheist, so, while he's at a C of E school (for want to alternatives) with a very multi-ethnic class, so he's aware of Islam, Hinduism and Sikhism, DH and I take the 'some people believe...' approach. I tell him that I believe our minds die with our bodies, but that other people believe differently, including his grandparents.

I think it's a normal phase to go through. My DD1 was fascinated with death at about 3. We had to have a long conversation about what we do with dead bodies as she thought they got chopped up like the meat on the shelves at Tesco. She also liked looking at the dead fish on the fish counter and still does. I remember her asking the worker on the fish counter whether the fish were dead, the worker said, "oh, I hope so!"

We don't have any religious beliefs, so we've just said that death is the end. But we still remember people who are dead.

Sounds normal to me. I've had similar conversations with my 3 year old although I don't do the whole soul/afterlife thing as there's reason to lie to him in this way. He loves playing games where he/we are dead. When taking about humans dying (which he asked about) and where they go I explain it by reference to dead things he's seen around the house like flies and spiders. It doesn't disturb him and I think it's better to be honest when they are young so it's natural to them as they grow up.

Good for you and your youngest.
I don;t dress it up with mine - when my 3 yr old asked what happens to the person when they die I spoke about the person is gone forever. They lie there and do nothing forever, and so we put them in the ground or burn them.

Entirely normal. My DDs went to pre-school where the play area opened out onto a graveyard, its always been a source of fascination. I remember DD1 asking when our elderly neighbours would die so that she could go to the funeral!!

Not unreasonable at all.

Sadly we lost a cat a few weeks ago, a bit hard to explain to a four year old because he was the youngest of our cats - only 7 - and went from fine to having to be pts in a few days, which is understandably scary for a four year old. It's the first close bereavement DS has had, and he is struggling to understand.

I'm very glad I've never avoided talking about people and animals who died before DS was born, he's looked through photo albums and seen pictures of my grandad or cats I had when I was young, so it's normal for us to talk about those who have died, and to tell stories about them. I think we hadn't this would be even more difficult for him.

We've had this a few times with my 7 year old daughter. The first time she was 3 when my gran died and she had to come to the funeral as we had no-one to leave her with, but she didn't really understand. More recently, my Mum died last year in a car crash which my daughter did understand, and got upset but was more concerned about those around her, ie myself and my dad. In the last couple of months an Aunty died which again, my daughter seemed to cope with, just saying that she missed her but other than that OK. Never had any sort of fascination with death though, and apart from saying she missed the person, and "Gran's dead, isn't she", she hasn't really mentioned death or been bothered by it.

Nothing wrong with this at all. My father died when DS was 6 so we had to discuss death. Kids do find it fascinating (though I agree with PP about keeping it to a home talk so as not to upset anyone outside the family who may be recently bereaved or something).
I also used the 'some people believe but no one knows for sure' line with DS at the time; we talked a fair bit about what happens to bodies (in our case, my father was cremated and his ashes scattered somewhere he loved, so I told DS about how the ashes fertilise the ground and the plants grow, and the cycle of life continues etc.)

I never have understood why people shield dc from death. It is originally quite old fashioned I think. OH didn't even know it was his aunts funeral, despite knowing she was terminally ill, until he was being beaten around the room for not behaving on the day of her funeral aged 11. More recently his Uncle died and all dc, including his GC, were banned from the funeral.

I tell our dc the truth, peoples bodies stop working for various reasons. Our bodies are then return to the earth ether by being buried or after cremation which provides nutrients to the planet and for new life to grow. We live on in others memories. Some people believe we go on to live in a supernatural way, it makes them happy, let them be.

I really struggled on top of mourning to clear the supernatural lies that I had been brought up with. It was an extra distress that could have been avoided.

I remember DS (then around 4) being obsessed with graveyards. He was always making model graveyards and discussing it loudly! Had to have a word with him as I agree with Barbarian it is not something that everyone wants always to hear.

Sadly his sister died before he was born and his aunt when he was a toddler so we have always been very open about death. I thought it would be more damaging to try and keep it secret.

As well as graveyards, we have also discussed cremation (which outraged him, was not all happy that we had burned them!)

so I explained when our bodies die our minds stay alive and go somewhere else, but we're not sure quite where

That's a lovely explanation. My mum told me it was just like falling asleep- which gave me insomnia for years...

My DS1 was fascinated by death when he was 3 - lots of questions. My mum died when he was 2 so it was something that was a part of our lives and I was always matter of fact (but hopefully age appropriate) when he asked me about her. He's 4 now and the phase seems to have passed although he does still mention/ ask about it sometimes.

An acquaintance of mine went out into the garden where her kids had been happily playing for a while and discovered they had dug a grave, made a gravestone out of a slate tile and put flowers on it. When she said "Whose grave is it meant to be?" they cheerfully said "Nana's." Nana at this point was barely past 50 and fit as a fiddle.

So yes, quite normal for little kids to be interested in this sort of thing and it sounds like you're dealing with it appropriately.

All sounds perfectly reasonable. Definitely good advice to tell her not to talk about it at school though, as when I was 4 my mum told me Santa was just a bit of fun and didn't really exist and, being a know it all broadcaster (still am) i toddled into school and told some other children, which led to me getting bollocked. I still think its pretty awful to tell a child off for telling the truth and leading other children out of ignorance and lies (and my mother told the teacher that) but it could have all been avoided if she had warned me that its best not to talk about such things!

My DD (also 4) has gone through a fascination with death stage, and still asks when great granny is going to die (no reason to think it's imminent, though she is 92). She knows that her great grandfather has already died, and we've explained to her (repeatedly!) that not everyone likes to talk about death - especially when we were visiting great granny on the anniversary of my grandfather's passing.

We don't do Father Christmas either, so I look forward to that at school - so far we've gone for the 'it's a game some people play' to explain why others believe in Santa, but we should probably warn her that others don't want to talk about it just being a game.