To be very p****d off that I am about to be demoted for being part-time?

[Cloudhopper]

I have just come back from maternity leave, and am currently in a senior management position. The organisation I work for is going through big structural changes which are going to mean redundancies.

I have two children in tax-free childcare in the workplace nursery, which pretty much halves my childcare bill. It means I actually earn money even with two children.

In a restructure at work, I am being asked to take a job which is the same level as one I did 6 years ago when I first joined the organisation. It won't be a pay cut (yet), but it is definitely a demotion. It is true that I could do the job standing on my head, but my CV is going to look appalling. And having recruited many, many staff in my career, I know that if I were looking at my CV as it will look in a year's time, I would think it looks very odd.

I really need some advice on the decision.

It comes back to the fact that I am now part time. If I apply for other jobs in my field, I would have to go full time. If I retain my part-time job, I get to spend quality time and a decent life with my two little girls (1yo and 3yo). The difference in childcare costs means that financially I would be working full time for no more money than I currently earn part time. But if I do this, my long term career is going to go completely down the tubes. I feel like all the things I hoped I coudl achieve in my life will go up in smoke.

I am totally unable to weigh up the short term pain against long term gain, or whether I just need to reassess what life is all about and get on with the demoted job.

Please those who like to gloat over part timers go easy on me. I know full well that this is about being part-time. I have been told that I just can't hold down a senior position part-time, and that I have got the ability to do an even more senior job if I just went full time. I think that is going to have to mean leaving where I currently work and starting afresh.

It may be that they can't legally do this -- they have to be careful about what they do to part time workers because it can be indirect sexual discrimination (because most p/t workers are women). I'd take legal advice from a specialist before making a decision.

I have to say that I can't see that a senior manager can really be part-time so I can see where your work is coming from. However, I don't know what you do so this is probably a sweeping judgment. [I am not anti-part time working btw]

Is a job share a possibility at all at that level?

You could be right, but they might get away with it because they are essentially going to upgrade the job to a higher salary and then I will be on the same grade as my previous subordinates, but paid more (at the top of the scale where they will be at the bottom).

They are picking the best people and putting them in these jobs - it is bad for me, but they have decided it is the only way forward for the organisation.

Well, Twinkleegg, a job share was one option, but I couldn't persuade any of the other part-timers to go for it.

At the moment I have been put into project work, so I could in fact stay part time in my current role.

It's just that they have decided that mainstream jobs are more important than project ones, and they are right.

I'd still get legal advice, really. They definitely couldn't have done this if you'd still been on maternity leave, so it seems dodgy at best to do it when you've just come back.

I agree this is worth checking out legally. This isn;t great but it's a start TUC on your rights and here . The stupid thing is the total lack of foresight on their part. They are in the process of restructuring fgs. they could tailor you a job if they had the balls and the brains to realise it's generally a good idea to keep good people...it's the perfect opportunity for them to ask themselves how they can retain staff like you - it would only take a tiny bit of creativity to slot a few p-t senior jobs into their new structure. bloody shitfabrains. can you point this out to them? I know it's easier said than done but I'd be very tempted to look elsewhere rather than take this.

twinklemeggan - why can't a senior manager be part time?

Can you prove out to them that you can continue to do this job within part time hours - perhaps some email checking in the evenings, a change in the set up of your hours? I agree with the discrimination thing. Essentially they are discriminating against you for being a woman due to the reason you've gone PT being that you've got kids etc. On the other side however, your employers have the right to turn down flexible working etc if it is going to be detrimental to the business and then offer you an alternative. Can you afford to take a couple of years on a career break? Would you want to? I think you need to assess how much you want to work at the company. have you already sat down with them and honestly discussed all this?

I also strongly echo what hatwoman says which is why i ask if you've spken in depth with someone. when i went back PT my request wasn't well received at first but they didn't want to lose me and i worked very hard in proving that i could do what was required in the hrs i was proposing

Are you in a union ?? Get legal advice quickly... Good luck x

Could you up your hours to something like four days a week? Still gives you some time with your girls... and I've known several senior managers who do four day weeks.

In terms of indirect discrimination, I don't think keeping you on the same salary is enough to get them out of trouble - it's the seniority of the job that's the issue. They can't just make you take several steps down the career ladder and tell you 'tough'. Well, they can, but they'd be facing a tribunal which will cost them a lot of time, hassle and money to defend. And there's no limit on payouts for sex discrimination...

I'd ask the Equal Opportunities Commission for advice on this one before I made any decisions, if I were you.

However, if you do decide after taking advice that the benefits in terms of subsidised childcare and part time working are worth the demotion, then I do think it's a defensible decision later on when you want to get back on the promotion ladder - you just say you traded ambition for flexible working while your children were small but are now looking for career development.

Thank you so much for your support. Am sat here in tears as the full enormity of it hits me.

Hatwoman and countto10- you are completely right. I would rather leave now no matter what happens. More than likely this is how it will end up. But I have just settled the children into the nursery. I have spent a year while on mat leave ferrying my daughter to and from the nursery - up to an hour's journey each way. Perhaps this is why I am not facing up to reality here.

They are arguing that the job has got more complex since I did it 6 years ago. This isn't really true. What is true is that the people we have now got doing those jobs are not up to scratch, and this is their attempt to sort the situation out. But it will still look very crap on my CV.

Before I went on mat leave I was actually 4 days per week, which still went down like a lead balloon, but kept them happy for a while.

Now I have reverted to 3 days, but I had said in an email that I am happy to go 4 days per week or even full time if that is a barrier to taking on more responsibility.

Part of the problem is that my boss is leaving. I haven't worked for the new FD, and he has no idea whether I am any good or not. I had a pretty bad meeting with him in my second week where I probably made a terrible impression .

I am going to apply for my boss's job anyway and say I will go full time if I get it. It's worth one last throw of the dice, but this proposal hasn't half dented my confidence!

Cloudhopper, you said 'I have been told that I just can't hold down a senior position part-time' but you also say that is what you are doing now! (albeit for only a while since you went back from mat leave), so have they outlined to you what you are not doing now - ie in what way you are not holding down your current role?

This sort of thing really pees me off too - i left my job because it was going no where when I was part time (and loads of other reasons too), but it still hacks me off a bit now (2 yrs later)

I think you have to ensure you document everything now and ask them to outline WHY you can't do it p-t

popmum - I realise that I have explained this really badly.

I was part-time before going on mat leave. This is my second mat leave. 6 months after the first mat leave when I came back part-time, they offered me the choice of going full time in my current senior position or taking the senior project role part time.

Since the job title sounded good and it was high level strategic work, I agreed to the project role.

The pressure of the job meant that I ended up 4 days per week long before i went on mat leave, but this was agreed as a temporary arrangement to bail out the project.

When I came back from mat leave I said I would like to go back to 3 days per week, and my job is still viable on that basis.

However, I think they are basically saying that they can't afford to have people doing projects any more, and therefore I will have to take a mainstream role.

i really sympathise. since going back to work part time it has dawned on me that i will never get a promotion and it is profoundly depressing. we're not different people because we have had children. BUT tempting though it is to cry (i know), i have decided to fight (well, maybe do a bit of both). things won't be any better for our daughters unless we stand our ground. easier said than done, i know but it's rubbish that a senior job can't be done on a job share or part time. please take some advice and find out what your position is. can't the advertise a job share? just cos there is no-one around now who wants to do it doesn't mean there is no-one out there. what ofen works with management in my organisation is if you think out a solution for yourself and take it to them. ie solve the problem they think the have and offer to do the legwork on implementing the answer. i'm sorry you are being made to feel so rubbish. it's humiliating and surely that can't be right/legal?!

To be honest they have been good to me so far - they have effectively created a project role so they can keep me. But now I have a new boss who obviously has looked at the structure and thought "Why have they got this project post?" and wants to get rid of it.

I know that they are impressed with my work so far, but I am not the only one being demoted. There are 3 of us in the same boat - all women of course. Mind you, the only full time man is being even more shafted.

I think the new boss just wants to sweep clean and clearly thinks we are all dead wood

so are they in effect making you redudant from your current post on the grounds that job is being axed as a cost cutting measure?

are all the women being demoted part time?

They haven't mentioned redundancy, but they are looking for millions of pounds in cost cuts. To be honest, the project role I am doing is just very vulnerable to redundancy, because it would be so easy to just say "That isn't needed any more"

This is why I have to be so careful. I wasn't that worried because I know they do want to keep me, but as it is public sector, they find it really hard to make anyone redundant.

enough, The ones being demoted the most are part time. One is full time but does flexible hours and she actually is a couple of rungs down from me now.

hmmm. i'm no expert but shouldn't the fact that it's public sector offer more protection? decent union?! it does sound complicated if there are cuts going on for genuine budgetry reasons and more than just part time women are effected but if the majority of those being demoted are women who are p/t then i think it's got to be worth getting advice. and chin up - if you're good and they want to keep you and are impressed with your work then it's bad management and lack of imagination on their part. of course it's demoralising for you but it's their short sightedness not your work or you that's the problem!

Would voluntary redundancy allowing time to find another job be an option?

sorry, i must go to bed, it's waay past my usual time, stayed up to watch report on newsnight about child labour in cocoa plantations. horrible. fairtrade easter eggs only in this house!
good luck with this and hope someone with some serious knowledge pops up with some decent advice - meanwhile i offer moral support and a stern look at your boss.

Fact - public sector unions don't care one bit about senior roles or professional people full stop. I speak from experience.

Cloudhopper - I take back what I said. For a project based role where it's built into the timescales there's obviously no reason why you shouldn't be part-time.

Hatwoman - for non-project based senior management it is my experience that senior managers are expected to be available to deal with situations that arise. Can't see how that can be achieved part-time that's all.