To be angry about sexism on kids TV

[Antoniacaenis]

Feeling very sad that DD (3) has just told be that the pink pig on her plaster must be George and not Peppa because it's in an astronaut costume.😡.

I am angry about what has made her think like this and In part I think it's the TV she watches, nearly always CBeebies and I thought these were ok. But when I think about it - where are the strong characters in lead roles? I guess I'm thinking about the cartoons mainly. Where are the girl characters in Peter Rabbit, Mike the Knight, and even DDs favourite Octonauts? In supporting roles... the fun , active main characters are nearly always male. I was liking Go Jetters until I realised that the only female character ( out of 5) never does anything except drive the car and worry she is not good enough ( non of the other characters have confidence issues and need constant reassurance from the team.

When the main character is female we get Kate and bloody Mim Mim. I know there is the likes of Katie Morag to balance things a bit but AIBU to be getting angry about this subtle conditioning?

Can anyone tell me about any good fun cartoons on other channels that don't follow this crappy pattern?

[Batteriesallgone]

I don't know Bue - Julia Donaldson pisses me off sexism wise. Sure she tries to shoehorn in a female here and there but she's terrible for girls being sensible / boys being exciting, and for using default male (like Tiddler, where the only females are teachers and a gossipy gran).

[ImogenTubbs]

Loving all the MLP love here. We have friends staying for the weekend with their 5yo DD and the very feminist mother has asked me not to let her DD watch My Little Pony because she doesn't want her to get into it. My 4yo DD (and I) love it and I've been trying to persuade this woman all weekend that it's a really positive show for girls! I think she thinks I'm a bit strange actually...

Question for knowledgeable types on this thread - is it actually true that boys won't watch programmes with female lead characters? I'd love to see the research. I mean... they watch Peppa Pig, don't they? I'm reminded of something Joss Whedon said at a Q&A I went to once. I can't remember his exact words but he basically said that he doesn't buy the idea that boys won't watch strong female characters - it just needs to be a good story.

[lozzylizzy]

My kids love the Disney movie 'Brave' the main character is a girl who uses swords and bow and arrow! DS1 (9) DS2 (5) and DD (3)

I think kids seem to take more notice in that respect of people around them (mum, dad etc) and she is actually correct that the astronaut on the plaster IS George because the programme said so, it won't be her own thoughts

[PumpkinSpiceEverything]

Dora the Explorer. It's an American show but you can watch it on Netflix; absolutely brilliant. My DD loves it. And it teaches them Spanish!

[KatharinaRosalie]

My DS loves Moana, if we're talking about movies. She's certainly no simpering princess.

But another thing, mentioned before - why is there almost no merchandise for boys featuring female characters? I've managed to find a cap, but that's pretty much it - of course I have no issues buying him a simple T-shirt labelled 'for girls', but everything has to be covered in frills and bows and ruffles, to make sure boys won't touch them. Why? They are totally missing out of a big market segment.

[BarbarianMum]

"Boys will not watch programmes with a female lead character"

^^ This gets said a lot, I'm not sure it's true. Ime boys will happily watch programmes with a female lead if they are exciting, interesting programmes. Unfortunately they are do often not.

[StarCrossdSkys]

We might find out if boys will watch a strong female character when the new series of Dr Who starts.

It's a good point because there aren't many programmes with female leads or majority characters that also appeal to boys' interests.

[BarbarianMum]

Plenty of (slightly older) boys enjoyed the new star wars. I took 6 of them to the cinema and not one of them commented on Rey being female, certainly it didn't detract from thrir enjoyment of the film.

[GoldfinchesInTheGarden]

I watched The Lego Movie yesterday and was completely shocked by its lack of decent female characters. One pink cat and one smart girl who swishes her hair around and is eventually allowed to leave her batman boyfriend for the hero. There was no shortage of male characters, most of whom could perfectly well have been female.

[nunnthewiser]

I wrote about this a few years ago - it led to an interesting discussion with a CBeebies writer. They don't get fully funded by the BBC, so need to make a show "marketable" to other countries, as that's where the majority of their funding comes from.

These countries will include the USA (dreadful for regressive attitudes) and even the Middle East, where they can't show an unmarried couple, for example.

The myth (though she claims it is not a myth) that girls will watch shows with a male lead, but boys won't watch a show with a female lead persists, and informs a lot of programming decisions.

laurasplog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/in-pink.html

[RachelRosie]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I find Doc McStuffins good for female role model. Usually sway between Doc or Dora when buying gifts for friends daughters

[OldBooks]

When DD (3) and I go clothes shopping we usually end up in the boys section buying clothes with dinosaurs or Paw Patrol on them. She chooses them and obviously has no idea she is in the 'boys' section atm. I am interested to see how long this lasts. She also loves Mike the Knight and has a knight costume that she dresses up in frequently.

Has no-one mentioned Frozen yet?

[PatMullins]

Another one for MLP. DD. Is almost 6 and is always telling me what new life lesson she's learnt

[Mittens1969]

@OldBooks, you're right, Frozen is good in that way, I was pleased that my DDs got into it for that reason, the story is about 2 sisters who save each other.

Re the Star Wars films, it's true that the earlier ones were male dominated but for a lot of women who grew up in the 1970s Princess Leia was a great role model, a feisty female who often showed the guys a thing or two.

[KatharinaRosalie]

Same thing with the Frozen stuff, my DS had a Frozen phase (like I'm sure many other small boys) but could you get anything that's with Elsa, or Anna, his favourite, that's not with frills and lace? No, you can only get Olaf, that he couldn't care less about..

[Mittens1969]

@KatharinaRosalie, I know, it is very girly, but I think you get Kristof and Sven? If not, that would surprise me. I never needed to look into it, as I only have DDs.

[KatharinaRosalie]

Probably, Mittens but DS loves Anna. Too bad that according to the merchandise producers he is clearly not supposed to..

[slightlyglittermaned]

Mittens - I think it's more the assumption that boys will only want the boy characters from Frozen. DS seems quite happy with Olaf and Sven on his boxer shorts, but when he was in his big Frozen phase he used to point at Elsa whenever she appeared on screen and shout his name (he was about 2 or 3 at the time) so I'm pretty sure he would have been happy with Elsa.

[Taytotots]

I'm another one who has been pleasantly surprised by my little pony. I have boy girl twins and they both love it. Dinosaur train good too (ok the paleontologist is male but good mix of characters and guest children). Puffin rock, sarah and duck, Ben and Holly. Awful 'Morphle' probably does have a good mix and they used to love it but I avoid like the plague as incredibly annoying voices.

[Rainatnight]

The one that drives me completely mental is In the Night Garden. I know it's for real tinies (DD is 14 months) but it still bothers me that Upsy-Daisy is hyper feminine, and basically an idiot. The Pontipine children have more common sense in their little fingers.

But what really makes me cross is that when the Pontipines and the Wottingers go anywhere (out for a picnic, into the house, onto the fucking Ninky Nonk), Mr Pontipine and Mr Wottinger go first! Every time. Not once do their wives actually get to lead the family. It's like Saudi fucking Arabia.

I feel better now I've got that off my chest.

[KatharinaRosalie]

Superwings drives me nuts. The only female character is a PINK helicopter. With eyelashes. Not only that, but they don't let her do half the stuff that's actually most suitable for a helicopter, but send a male jet instead.

[Mittens1969]

@KatharinaRosalie, @ slightlyglittermaned, ok I get your point. The merchandise is ridiculously girly when I think about it! Trouble is, princess dresses are such big business these days. As there are boys who really like Elsa and Anna, hopefully Disney will see a new angle when Frozen 2 is released.

[AngelsSins]

On the topic of Star Wars and female leads, someone posted on here to Google "where's Rey" and I'm mentioning it again because it's worth looking at. despite being the lead character, she was left out of the monopoly game, had fewer action figures of her than the other characters, left her completely out of action sets, off of clothing, etc. All because a bunch of men decided that boys (who had presumably watched the films) wouldn't want a girl toy. Apparently that also over rides what girls might want.

[ParadiseLaundry]

In S2 of Raa Raa the Noisy Lion the ratio of male to female characters is slightly better at 4 male main characters and 3 female characters.

The spider, additional character is also a girl so that's probably about as even as it gets.

I would definitely like to see more female characters, DS is just getting into Paw Patrol and I do find the fact that only one main dog is female and the other 5 are boys.