To say no to a loft conversion?

[Pud2]

This post is running alongside my other post on wooden floors!

The flat above me is for sale. The buyers want to convert the loft for habitation. The house is a Victorian terraced house with two converted flats. I'm on the ground floor but we have shared freehold and shared ownership of the roof. There would only be a Velux window at the front and a small dormer at the back.

Just wondered if there's any reason to say no other than the pain of the building work which wouldn't be good enough reason?

Say NO!

There was a great cheeky fucker thread on this a while back which raised all sorts of issues - will try and find it.

If you share ownership of the roof, you don't need a reason for saying no to dormer windows being put in it and it being turned into a new floor in someone else's flat other than you don't bloody want it!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2958124-Clauses-in-lease-is-this-normal-and-AIBU

Here it is.

Read this - it will provide food for thought!

You could offer to sell them your "share" of the roof space and make sure they are 100% responsible for the maintenance of the roof? Think how much value they are going to add to their flat!

Agree with PP - if you can get them to take sole ownership of the roof with a duty to maintain it then you could save yourself a fortune in the long run.

Check what it says in the Lease.

I would have assumed the loft area is jointly owned and needs to be accessible at all times for inspection of the roof and any services.
I'd be quite surprised if the upstairs neighbour wholly owned the area it's not like a basement area that can be converted separately.

My DCs live in flats and their leases have clauses forbidding wooden flooring due to noise travel.

Just posted on your other thread. You need to educate yourself quick smart on the ins and outs of your lease. Contact the Leasehold Advisory Service. If there are two flats and you share the freehold then you can say no to this before it even starts. Why would anyone in their right mind say yes? The sale can't proceed if you don't agree as the other half of the freehold! Know your rights and protect yourself otherwise you're going to get royally screwed over.

If you both own the roof, then with a good lawyer, you could probably claim his rent. Take legal advice.

They can't compel you to agree to developing YOUR half of the roof space. They could buy it from you perhaps, but you should consult a solicitor who specialises in this type of thing. They would also have to pay for you to get a survey to see what they should pay you for your half of the roof.

The other thread has some very good stuff on it, so well worth reading.

Imagine the noise of people moving about above your bedrooms.....i doubt they will sign to the effect that they "guarantee to use the best noise reduction materials"

How much will their property increase in value compared to yours if they do add a loft conversion?

How will it affect the value of your property?

What about access if they/future buyers want to rebuild or repairs need doing?

I'd have thought with both flats comes joint ownership of the freehold and joint ownership of all the roof and all the loft space, unless the lease and deeds determine otherwise. Where's the loft hatch located?

Besides which if you have 50% responsibility for repairs and maintenance, should anything change re the size of either flat, you need to try and vary that relating to square footage.

You should also look at your lease to see what it says about access, responsibility etc.

In terms of the freehold ownership, exactly what do you jointly own? Is it the whole building? Does it include the roofspace or just the roof? How is this managed? Do you have a separate management company for the freehold?

You definitely should get some legal help. Don't rely on what gets posted on MumsNet.

If you don't have a good enough reason you're being unreasonable to come here looking for one.

I'm the OP from the other thread - we didn't sell our share in the end as the kind of conversion the buyer wanted to do would've meant access through our living room! Definitely get legal advice. Our solicitor was fantastic. The place is on sale again now with no mention of the loft.

You can't be compelled to sell your share if you have one.

100% no

The roof space isn't demised to them they can't extend into it.

Unless you want to sell them 50% of the roof space for a lot of £ and have it demised to the upstairs flat.

This is like wanting to build an extension over a shared driveway. You can't unless you buy the driveway from the other person.

Freeholders IF THEY GIVE PERMISSION normally ask for 50% of the increased value of the property in return - so tens of thousands at least. Why would you just let them take tens of thousands of your money? You'd be a fool to agree without adequate compensation.

Blimey, this is such an eye opener! There haven't been any problems up until now with the current owners. Off to check the lease now. I had no idea that some of the loft space might belong to me.

If I do need to take on a solicitor to advise me, who pays for that? The buyers or the sellers? I'm assuming I don't?

My understanding is that op is on the ground floor, there's a flat currently above her, and those people want to extend up into the loft. So the proposed new living space would not be directly above her.

Why is everyone so against her saying yes? What would she actually lose?

Turns out the roof and the roof structure do belong to the upstairs flat. However, I imagine I need to look at the impact of a potential loft extension on the overall structure of the house as well as the increase in builders insurance. There's also the problem of access for scaffolding and builders as the only access to the back garden is through my ground floor flat. This was the problem highlighted in the link to the other thread above (thanks fizzygreenwater).

Can't they scaffold the front for access? Still inconvenient for you, but better than trecking through your house.

They won't be able to store their materials in your back garden, which I bet they'll want to do. But that is the builders problem, not yours.

Just say no, what's in it for you?

If you don't own the roof or roof space, the whole thing is moot until you see the plans. Absolutely don't agree to anything until then. If the upstairs flat sale is contingent on your agreement, that isn't really your problem.

Have you paid for legal advice as part of your household insurance OP?

If they significantly increase their floor space you need to look at how the building insurence is split going forward etc.

The noise, dirt and inconvieniance would be enough for me to say no though.

The other thing to bare in mind is that these buildings were built to support two floors, not three. With the additional load the foundations will need to be checked and may need underpinning before work can commence. It's unlikely they do, but there is that risk nonetheless. Again, they'd need access through your flat to check and do any associated work.