To say no to wooden floors?

[Pud2]

I live in a downstairs flat. The upstairs flat is being sold and the new owners want to install wooden floors, and have this put into the lease. I really don't want wooden floors above me because of the potential noise but they are saying they will use 'floating' wooden floors and effective sound proofing. Does anyone know if that would equate to having carpets?

Say no.
It's not currently in the lease for a good reason and I suspect will affect your ability to sell. Living underneath laminate flooring is generally a nightmare. We sold a lovely flat after the new owners upstairs put in laminate flooring - we could hear every footstep, dropped item, conversation etc. Child regularly woken by the noise. They didn't mean to be anti social neighbours - but that's what they ended up as. Rather than getting into disputes, we moved. It was that bad.

don't let them move their kitchen over your bedroom. this happened to a friend of mine and her upstairs neighbour has insomnia and likes to do his washing at 2am

people can be incredibly inconsiderate. don't give them the opportunity!

No! I had to move from my last house because of this as I was renting and had no say. It should be in the lease whether they can or not but I would fight it!

The biggest problem with changing the lease is that it then allows any neighbour in the future to have wooden floors. So even if these ones are considerate and spend a fortune sound proofing (which may or may not work - you'd only know afterwards), someone might come along in the future and decide to replace them on the cheap.

TBH, it really isn't your problem if the people choose not to buy because they can't change the lease and move the kitchen. It just means that the flat isn't really suitable for them and they need to keep looking to find something that really works for them.

Don't agree. Have stayed in the spare room of a lovely big flat - but the family above had moved their kitchen above the spare bedroom and put hardword flooring down. No chance of getting to sleep until they were in bed - and lie ins (they had children) were impossible as the toddlers raced around the kitchen on trikes/scraped the chairs back. They'd keep the noise level down after complaints ... for a couple of days.

My flats purpose built and you definitely hear everything

Do you know if I have the right to refuse the kitchen being moved above my bedroom? How would I go about that?

Such useful posts everyone. Thank you.

Just posted on your other thread :)

Say no, as everyone has said. It isn't just the potnetial noise effect on you - it's about you being able to sell on and the potential effect of having a clause like that written in. So sorry, but no, we have been very firmly advised against it.

No way would I buy a flat which had that in the lease. I'd simply find a flat which didn't. Especially a conversion!!!

not sure about the kitchen - find a surveyor and ask?

Think as the freeholder you have to give permission for any lease changes, so you can also refuse kitchen being moved. A conveyancer (look for one who actually does stuff with leasehold as not all do) should be able to advise your position.

It may feel a bit like you don't want to say no to all these things, feels a bit mean etc etc. But you are in reality being very reasonable, your quality of life is important, and this could easily affect it, and as this is all taking place pre sale it is good for all sides. They know what they can and can't do and can make the purchase or not informed.

If it's not for them someone else will come along and be happy with it as is. Hope that doesn't offend, probably projecting some of my "trying to keep everyone happy" issues into you, but just my 2p in case you were feeling a bit like that.

You can't change a lease as easily as all that. There must be a head lease for the whole block, and any variations would require the consent of all leaseholders (assuming the various flats own the freehold between them). Just say no. The prospective owners are very naive to assume that potential new neighbours will roll over and agree to this!

Is it a house conversion into two flats only OP?

I wouldn't be willing to vary the Lease, as once you have, you really have no control over the materials they use. They may say they've complied with proper measures, but if it's ineffective, you're on a hiding to nothing.

God, say no and hope they do drop out! We lived in a conversion with that weird kitchen above a bedroom thing and it was awful.

Kitchens above bedrooms are really intrusive as many people put dishwashers and washing machines on late at night. I'd say no to wooden floors as well.

They can't unilaterally change the lease.

Our CFNs upstairs took out the carpets and replaced with uninsulated laminate and it's been a nightmare, especially as they don't give a shit - just smile and nod and apologize but don't actually DO anything! It's now on the market and being advertised with laminate flooring. Sadly for them, their lease specifies suitable floor covering and insulation. We've contacted our solicitor. They also need to extend the lease so as joint freeholders we are not signing anything until they put the carpet back or sort out soundproofing.

Definitely a no then. Thank you MNetters!

I wouldn't allow it. When we moved into a first floor HA flat years ago, despite the tenancy agreement stating NO laminate/hard flooring in in flats other than ground floor - when we were given the keys the entire flat had laminate and we couldn't afford to replace it all with carpet. Luckily the neighbour downstairs was hard of hearing but we always felt the need to be extra quiet when walking around. We didn't live there long so never replaced it with carpet, wouldn't surprise me if it's still all laminate!

I think no matter how quiet you try to be, laminate flooring does not work in flats as it's too noisy!

Anyone got any thoughts about how I should respond if they want me to agree to hard flooring, eg Lino or tiles. Is that as bad as wooden flooring?

Yes. Very slightly less clacky, still very bangy IYSWIM. Also it will likely be "hard" lino like Karndean.

Carpet. And insulation. They need to suck it up.

I would still say no. They knew the Ts&Cs when they bought the flat. Harder floors are never going to benefit you and will probably disadvantage you.
Carpets and underlay deaden noise

I have a first floor flat and I had wooden floors put in when I bought it (new build). It's now rented out. There was nothing in the lease to forbid it, but I got additional insulation underneath. I'm friendly with the guy who lives below and have always asked him to let me know if there is a problem with noise. He says he rarely hears anything.

By contrast, I stayed with a friend who has a flat in a Victorian conversion and the people above her had laminate. I was shocked at the noise. It was like they were in the same room as us. She said she'd spoken to them about it but they didn't care and her management company refused to do anything about it.

I probably wouldn't choose wooden floors again and if I need to redo the floor it will be carpet. The last tenant wrecked the floor and it cost far more to get it sorted than just replacing carpet.

It doesn't have to be noisy - we're in a conversion with wood floors throughout (both flats), and never hear our neighbours even when they have parties (they are in their fifties so the parties are sedate, but not silent).

They tell us that they can never hear anything from us, and I don't think they are just being polite - they seemed quite surprised to see DS, and he was a couple of weeks old at that point. If they'd heard him screaming they would presumably have realised he'd arrived a bit early.

We do hear our own washing machine (directly below the bedroom), and our other neighbours machine next door. I think the sound transmits along the walls more than through the floor.

The point is the op shouldn't take the risk of "it might not be" for lots of people it is. And a lot of places do have rules about wooden flooring as it can be exceptionally noisy, then the op is stuck with it. Not worth the risk IMO