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Post Grenfell........now Ledbury Towers to be evacuated due to gas risk which has been present for decades.

74 replies

HelenaDove · 10/08/2017 18:51

Sorry about copy and paste I cant do screen shots.

Replying to @peterwalker99
It's Ledbury estate by Old Kent Rd, built in late 60s using concrete panels, same as Ronan Point, where gas blast in 68 killed four people
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Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 37m37 minutes ago
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After Ronan Point all such blocks with gas supplies were meant to have been reinforced. Southwark council only just found Ledbury wasn't.
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Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 36m36 minutes ago
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It's pretty astonishing: 500+ people living in blocks which could have collapsed like house of cards in a gas explosion. For decades
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Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 35m35 minutes ago
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They've all had gas cut off, so most have no cooking, hot water or heating. Letter says they can go to local leisure centre for showers
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Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 35m35 minutes ago
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Southwark say they will "decant|" residents so checks and work can be done – ie moved out. Many residents furious.
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Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 34m34 minutes ago
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One resident said: "I cannot describe my anger. It's a miracle nothing has happened." Says residents fear blocks will be knocked down.
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Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 32m32 minutes ago
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It perhaps says a lot about modern London that 500+ poorer people have spent years living in homes which are hugely and obviously unsafe.

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HelenaDove · 01/09/2017 02:30

"DCLG declined to identify authorities that may have once used or still have similar solutions in place, but confirmed that letters had been sent by the secretary of state to 10 councils that may be impacted. The department has said that consultations were ongoing with these authorities.

Tamara Finkelstein, director general of the DCLG-established Building Safety Programme, said that it was unclear whether recommended assessments or work were undertaken at the Ledbury Tower blocks. Ms Finkelstein said further scrutiny was therefore required at similar properties in the UK.

“In light of these findings from Southwark, you should ascertain whether buildings with large panel systems in your area also have piped gas. If they do, you should take action to ensure that these buildings can carry piped gas safely,” she said."

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HelenaDove · 09/09/2017 16:56

John Tyson‏ @JohnnyTyson 4h4 hours ago
More John Tyson Retweeted LedburyActionGroup
Ledbury residents let down again by @lb_southwark
Water leaks into electrics a huge safety risk.
Sort it out @steviecryanJohn Tyson added,
LedburyActionGroup @LedburyAction
New immersion heater installation causing unexplained leaks on #LedburyEstate,water getting into electrics in many flats @lb_southwark
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LedburyActionGroup Retweeted
John Paterson‏ @johnlistening 4h4 hours ago
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Replying to @johnlistening @HVN_Plus @LedburyAction
#Grenfell might be deemed to satisfy LG Circular 62/68 &71/68 Ledbury Towers most certainly do not.How many more out there?
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LedburyActionGroup‏ @LedburyAction 5h5 hours ago
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New immersion heater installation causing unexplained leaks on #LedburyEstate,water getting into electrics in many flats @lb_southwark

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HelenaDove · 09/09/2017 16:57

Reply Retweeted 3 Like 3 Direct message
LedburyActionGroup Retweeted
John Paterson‏ @johnlistening 3h3 hours ago
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Replying to @LedburyAction
Blowouts cause fires.Where water comes through so can smoke and fire.#Ledbury tenants cannot wait for Inquiries.Need to be safeguarded now!
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LedburyActionGroup Retweeted
WhistleBlower‏ @lulinspector 4h4 hours ago
More WhistleBlower Retweeted LedburyActionGroup
Temporary Accommodation is not good for anyone..
The rectification of issues need to be resolved before 'Electrical blowout' occur.WhistleBlower added,
LedburyActionGroup @LedburyAction
A number of #LedburyEstate residents facing going into temp accommodation as new water leaks cause several electric blowouts in flats
0 replies . 2 retweets 1 like
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LedburyActionGroup‏ @LedburyAction 4h4 hours ago
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A number of #LedburyEstate residents facing going into temp accommodation as new water leaks cause several electric blowouts in flats

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mummymeister · 09/09/2017 17:22

why do the problems in social housing happen? because of the ridiculous stupid rule that housing authorities/local councils always have to accept the lowest quote for works that's why.

it has been a rule for years and it has absolutely almost single handedly destroyed London's tenanted stock.

I have lost count of the number of times the council were forced to take the lowest quote when they knew the quality of the works would be totally shit and that they would spend even more money on contract enforcement than it would have cost them to get a bona fide contractor in to do the works in the first place.

that and the self cert allowed under the building regs.

HelenaDove · 09/09/2017 17:28

YY mummymeister its stupid its frustrating and they will just carry on doing it that way.

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mummymeister · 09/09/2017 17:34

Thanks Helena. I worked in LG for over 20 years and this was without a doubt the most stupidest of the stupidest. yet both labour and tory governments have both allowed it to persist.

its why so much LA work is of such an incredibly piss poor standard. we all knew it. we all knew when they got the job it was going to be awful yet were powerless to do anything about it except under the contract.

this is what there should be a public enquiry about. tendering for work and Building control. its why I want to see the Grenfell remit so tight so that things about these issues do come out. I think the public as a whole has no idea of these two things and the massive impact that they have on local government housing.

HelenaDove · 09/09/2017 17:45

YY Mummy Ive said it on here a lot but what youve mentioned and the sub contracting and the sub contracting of the sub contracting has contributed to all this.

At Ledbury the cracks are so wide that a tenant could pass a book through the crack to his/her next door neighbour.

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HelenaDove · 12/09/2017 14:42

same problem discovered at Lethbridge Close

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41225976

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HelenaDove · 16/09/2017 02:14

In this video of a meeting about Ledbury the fact that Ledbury is actually a weaker building than Ronan Point was is discussed.

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makeourfuture · 16/09/2017 06:44

This is awful.

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HelenaDove · 23/09/2017 21:12

LedburyActionGroup‏ @LedburyAction 1h1 hour ago
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#LedburyEstate residents in B&B told if they want kitchen facilities it would be outside London. Apparently @lb_southwark have no kitchens.

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HelenaDove · 28/09/2017 14:23

LedburyActionGroup‏ @LedburyAction 8m8 minutes ago
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Southwark Council are currently forcing entry to flats on #LedburyEstate for heating works, despite solicitors warning that it's unlawful

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HelenaDove · 20/08/2018 16:42

And now another one.

HelenaDove Mon 20-Aug-18 16:34:23

www.bbc.com/news/uk-45221245?ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter
Add message | Report | Message poster
HelenaDove Mon 20-Aug-18 16:38:32

"Families living in a north London block of flats judged to be at risk of collapse have told the Victoria Derbyshire programme they are living in fear.

Eighty seven households have been told to leave by the end of October, but only 19 have accepted accommodation.

Checks after the Grenfell Tower fire found parts of the Tangmere block could fall if there was a gas explosion.

Haringey Council said it was working with residents to find them new homes.

Like many of the blocks on the Broadwater Farm estate, the 116 flats in the six-storey Tangmere were built using a large panel system in the 1970s.

It is the same kind of construction as the Ronan Point block, which partially collapsed in east London 50 years ago, killing four people.

The incident led to a requirement for re-enforcement work on similar towers. But this was not completed everywhere, and structural checks on the blocks in this estate were only ordered last year."

The council told residents the risk of a collapse was low, but the threat was sufficiently high to require evacuation due to its construction method, and the fact that it had a gas supply.

It said a number of additional safety measures had been put in place to reduce the risk further, including replacing gas cookers with electric and employing 24-hour concierges to prevent people bringing gas bottles into the building.

Selina Dusie, a mother-of-four who has lived there since 1996, said: "I am scared. If I go to work and leave my children home I'm scared. I don't know what is going to happen.

"No-one is safe in this building. They [the council] told us they are going to move us but every day they say something different."
'People at risk'

Arnold Tarling, a surveyor and fire safety expert, said there had been been a number of reports since the 1980s outlining the risks in the building.

"I have raised concerns about the way the building is constructed," he said.

"I have raised concerns about the fact that they have gas in them when they shouldn't. I also have concerns about their fire doors, when they've got plastic fire doors defectively installed

Patrick Crooks, 53, who lives on the fourth floor, is still angry he has been told his studio flat is unsafe.

"I have made this my home and all of a sudden they just want to kick us out and put us somewhere worse," he said.

"It is hard thinking about it, day by day. But what can I do? If they have to kick us out they have to kick us out."

Research group Tower Blocks UK said there were around 1,500 large panel system blocks across the UK that need to urgently be structurally investigated to ensure they were not in danger of progressive collapse.

The construction became popular in the 1960s as a way of building cheap housing. Other tower blocks in London, Leicester and Portsmouth have been evacuated following checks.

"We consider these blocks to be a potential risk. They need to be examined to ensure that they are not in danger of progressive collapse, and to ensure that each flat can contain a fire for one hour," said tower block safety campaigner Frances Clark.

'Inherent design flaws'

The council's preferred option is demolition, but it is still in consultation about whether to rebuild or to refurbish Tangmere. The estimated cost of repairs is £13m.

Lord Heseltine was environment secretary from 1979 to 1983, responsible for reviving run-down estates in high-poverty areas.

He wants central government to offer more support to local authorities to evacuate residents who are found to be living in unsafe buildings.

"I would like to see far more power from London switched to local people, local authorities and local communities," he said. "I think they have a greater sense of what's at stake, a greater involvement, and a greater knowledge of what needs to be done."

Haringey Council said it has made offers of alternative accommodation to 60 households, with 19 of these accepted and a large number of viewings arranged.

It has also made a series of commitments to residents, including a promise that they will be able to return to the estate once the block is strengthened or new homes built, and that they will not be worse off financially due to the move.

The council said: "Tangmere absolutely needs improvements. We know there have been a number of issues, which staff are constantly trying to address. But in terms of long-term solutions, the block has inherent design flaws which make many issues very difficult to resolve.

The Department for Housing, Communities and Local Government said: "Building owners are responsible for checking their properties, and we have given councils and housing associations advice on checking the structural safety of buildings which use large panel systems."

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HelenaDove · 20/08/2018 16:47

"As John Grindrod points out in Concretopia, Newham had built almost 15,000 new homes by 1968, a post-war record for a London borough, but there were still 9,000 slums to be cleared in the area.

Tower blocks were heavily incentivised by central government.

The Tory 1956 Housing Subsidies Act, for example, incentivised tower blocks by paying progressively higher subsidies for buildings over six, 15 and 20 storeys.

Second, most of the large panel system (LPS) blocks like Ronan Point were built by big construction companies using systems licensed from continental Europe.

Industrialised building methods offered the prospect of delivering homes more quickly without being constrained by skills shortages in conventional building trades

That handed those firms enormous power, and contracts were often awarded with limited or no competition and with minimal design input.

The system used on Ronan Point and its sister blocks, for example, was developed in Denmark but had only been used before on buildings up to six storeys.

Third, the disaster shook but did not break confidence in tower blocks, and they continued to be built in large numbers, including the robustly designed Grenfell Tower in west London (designed in 1967 and completed in 1974).

And, as John Boughton points out in his excellent new book Municipal Dreams (an extract of which you can read here), even in 1968 the emphasis had already begun to shift to lower-rise development and rehabilitation, with the premium for flats above six storeys abolished two years earlier.

For all the part it played in the rejection of the mass housing model, Mr Boughton points out that “with lessons learnt and aspirations honed and tempered, the decade that followed would see the construction of some of the finest council housing ever built. Sadly, that in the end would prove to be its swansong”.

Following the inquiry, Ronan Point was rebuilt and strengthened, and tenants moved back into their homes in 1973

But tenants and other campaigners continued to warn that LPS blocks were fundamentally unsafe, and shoddy building work meant that significant defects quickly emerged.

By the 1980s tenants at Ronan Point were reporting that they could smell food being cooked 20 storeys below them and hear people’s conversations in flats above and below them. Finally, the decision was made to demolish it and similar blocks.

After Ronan Point was taken down and inspected floor by floor, tests found that the building still had a weak structure that would have collapsed in a fire, high wind or explosion.

Newspapers and drinks cans were found in the joints between the panels rather than concrete.

At first glance the two disasters seem very different: Ronan Point was a newly built LPS block that suffered a partial collapse after an explosion, whereas Grenfell Tower was a newly refurbished, non-system block that suffered a devastating fire.

One became seen as a symbol of the failures of council housing, the other as a symbol of the way that poor people are treated in the richest part of the country

But look a little deeper and the parallels become all too clear. The Grenfell inquiry is taking much longer than the one for Ronan Point, but it would be surprising if it did not highlight a whole series of common factors.

In the aftermath of both, it was clear that warnings were not heeded: partial collapses of other buildings’ windows being blown in on tower blocks in the case of Ronan Point; and a series of other fires, most notably at Lakanal House, in the case of Grenfell.

Both highlighted concerns about the way building projects are procured and carried out, how the quality of the work is checked and the adequacy of the building regulations

Both showed the dangers of not listening to tenants. As Frances Clarke put it in a piece for Inside Housing just after the Grenfell fire, how was it that we did not learn from the experience of Ronan Point, where shoddy workmanship meant that flats designed to withstand fire for an hour only lasted 11 minutes?

Both led to big problems for landlords rushing to make their homes safe: in 1969 the Greater London Council faced a financial crisis as a result of the £3m bill for strengthening its blocks; in 2018 the problems are spread across council, housing association and private landlords, and affect tenants and leaseholders alike.

And both point to the way that a focus on targets and cost savings and reliance on private contractors to deliver them can be a recipe for cutting corners on safety.

The pay of the largely unskilled workforce assembling Ronan Point’s panels onsite depended on the speed at which they built.

But perhaps the most worrying legacy of Ronan Point is that the story did not end when it was finally demolished in 1986.

The disaster did lead to an immediate overhaul of Part A of the building regulations to ensure that the design of tall buildings was sufficiently robust.

But in the wake of Grenfell, safety checks on LPS blocks revealed some where the strengthening work had never been carried out and the gas supply had not been disconnected.

It was a shocking reminder of the way that the balance between safety and cost can slowly tilt back following a disaster.

As the debate about combustibility, desktop studies and prescription in Part B of building regulations continues, we would do well to remember that."

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longwayoff · 20/08/2018 16:57

Ah. But what a great opportunity to 'redevelop' some desirable luxury apartments in a prime location. How many 'decanted' tenants will be returning there do you think?

HelenaDove · 20/08/2018 17:01

longwayoff DH and i were just saying the same thing.

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serbska · 20/08/2018 17:04

Thanks for the iplayer link @SerfTerf

Really the entire social housing system at the moment is a massive disaster for both legacy and current issues

LakieLady · 20/08/2018 17:20

*why do the problems in social housing happen? because of the ridiculous stupid rule that housing authorities/local councils always have to accept the lowest quote for works that's why.

it has been a rule for years and it has absolutely almost single handedly destroyed London's tenanted stock.*

Absolutely, and it applies to all council services imo, and to other public services, eg NHS.

When work was done and managed by councils' own direct labour organisations, the council knew that the right materials were used because THEY bought the right materials, they knew the work was done to the correct spec because council foremen checked the work and council managers checked that the foremen were doing that. No-one had any incentive to cut corners because no-one was in it to make a profit.

longwayoff · 20/08/2018 17:43

O lakie. Its bloody grim. 'Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold . . .' I feel less hopeful every day.

HelenaDove · 20/08/2018 18:09

Just caught up with Victoria Derbyshire from this morning. There was a report on there and they had a resident and rep from Tower Blocks UK

Tenants arent being offered like for like homes. They are being offered smaller homes. One mentioned a room in a house.

The tenants want a ballot because without that there is no gurantee that social housing will be built in its place.

Homeless payment not available unless there is demolition. Over 500 tower blocks have been deemed unsafe across the country.

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