to expect exp to make his own school pick up arrangements on his contact day?

[harman]

Message withdrawn

The decisions first wives (or husbands) make have huge impacts on second marriages/couples and the way the family functions and you do have to work with them. However much one might like it to be the case, the two families do not function separately from one another. One complements the other. The objective is to make that function harmoniously, and if you fail to see the other family for what it is (good and bad) you will be constantly frustrated and won't be able to organise your life.

You can never see another family for what it is though Anna.

I have no idea what the real emotional and psychological dynamics of another family are. Hell, I can barely work out those of my own family, let alone someone else's. We'll always see other families through the prism of our own experience, attitudes, prejudices etc. Just as the "decisions first wives (or husbands) make have huge impacts on second marriages/couples and the way the family functions", so the decisions made by second wives or husbands on the first family, also have a massive impact. And of course, in neither case did the other party agree to have this other person have so much impact on their life, hence the almost inevitable tension. A bit like with in-laws - you didn't marry them and you might not have been aware of how much weight their word would carry, but blimey look how large they loom in your life (in some cases).

Caligula - it's not as complicated as that.

You can see pretty easily if (as in our case) the mother of my stepsons never takes her children to the dentist or hairdresser or buys them clothes or thinks about their education or organises any out of school activities or ensures they are washed and clean. So you end up doing those things so that the children don't miss out.

Those are very straightforward examples of things you have to deal with as a stepfamily that impact your life.

Another issue - choosing schools. Do you want to send all the children to the same school and give them all the same good opportunities, or do you treat the children differently.

There are constant, very concrete, issues and negotiations.

And incidently - we don't get on badly or fight at all. My partner and his ex talk regularly about the children, perfectly amicably. There are things my partner doesn't like about the decisions she makes for the children, but we work out strategies to overcome them. It takes a lot of time but you get there in the end.

Well that sounds very like a description of a woman with depression to me.

Though of course, it may not be. Who knows.

Caligula - do you mean my partner's ex?

I don't often buy the children clothes and I always send the nanny to the hairdresser. That doesn't make me a bad mother. I just find those kinds of things very boring. I hope I talk to them a lot though and anyone who lives with their children spends a lot of time with them interacting in ways you might never know. I just don't think you can really judge or criticise first wiaves. I am sick of having dinner with men who spend it criticising their ex wife. It makes me think whatever he is saying will be 100% wrong and I assume if in doubt what the first wife says will be true and what the husband says wrong.

Yes, just purely on the lack of motivation you talked about.

Obviously you know her better - maybe she goes clubbing every weekend and it's only her kids she's not motivated about.

But that's what I mean about seeing other families through the prism of our own experience - I did know someone who was very depressed (my xp's mother) and she was exactly the way you describe. She was so lethargic, she couldn't even be bothered to get herself and her DS a home to live in. When I first heard about his childhood, I was scandalised by what a terrible mother she was, but over the years I realised that she was extremely depressed and it simply went undiagnosed (poor old bat still is, I expect she'll just suffer low-level depression until she dies).

LOL at Xenia having dinners with men who criticise their ex-wives.

How utterly entertaining! I would love to do that, but then I guess the novelty would wear off.

Sending the nanny to the hairdresser is a big step up from letting the children walk around with hair getting up their noses. When I say she doesn't do, I mean - neither does she do it or subcontract it, it just doesn't happen if left up to her. She's too busy working/partying/at the hairdresser/playing golf etc.

Xenia, I can quite understand that you find it ghastly to sit through dinner hearing some man whine on about his ex-wife when he's supposed to be seducing you. There's a time and place for everything. But when you become a stepmother (which is very probable, if one day you meet a man you want to settle down with) you will see that you cannot remain "neutral" about what the children receive at their other home. To do so is to abnegate responsibility.

Caligula - no she's not depressed. She's a Jewish Princess who thinks her children are toys that other people can pick up and tidy away once she's finished playing with them.

Yes, okay I see.
You just get a view of how bitterly hurt they are. It's sad. One hadn;t been allowed to see his child for a year because he'd asked for more access so she invented child abuse allegations. I had dinner with another whose wife had also invented child abuse accuations. They'd just had bath together. Actually in those cases I think the men weren't inventing anything but sometimes there isn't enough give and take on any side. The one wanting contact he was now applygint to take the child away from the mother. He'll never get that. He'd be better getting back to ver other weekend. So you end up spending dinner feeling like some sort of glorified therapist.

The other funny one was the man who told me how he'd hidden the money. Why is that attractive - that he wants to deprive his children? She's accused him of hitting her - I think he'd pushed her back on the bed and she then had a bruise she could show in court and his children now think he's a wife beater. But you listen to all this stuff and you just don't know the truth - they paint it as so black and white - they right, the wife wrong and you know the truth is always somewhere in the middle. Why any of them think it's a suitable topic of conversation I don't know but that's another issue.

I certainly wouldn't find those kind of conversations very attractive... maybe you could decide to veto "what went wrong last time" as a topic of dinner conversation?

My partner and I didn't talk about that stuff for ages after we met. But then, we were SO in love that we had other things to do.......

Xenia - if he pushed her hard enough to bruise her then how is he not a wife beater?

I don't know, I suppose if they do talk about it and you read between the lines, you can immediately tell that they're a nutter you want nothing more to do with, so you can move on to the next date.

Also agree if he gave his wife a bruise, he must have applied quite some force. (Unless the bruise was from another source of course)

I'm thinking about this, since quite a few of my friends have been in the position of dating men with former wives, and children.

Generally, the consensus is: WE DON'T WANT TO KNOW. We wanted to focus on attraction, romance etc and knowing whether we have something in common other than a failed relationship.

When you actually settle down together, then you have to deal with it. And you try to deal with it realistically, knowing that carving out a role as a stepmother is always very difficult (and the more you know about what goes on the other side, the better armed you are).

Oh I don't know. I'd quite like to know really, but that's probably because I'm incorrigably nosey.

it's wise to find out reasonably son though. Serial adulterers do it again and again and again no matter how much they're in love with the new woman so you take one of those on at your period. Wife beaters and those with temper issues usually repeat it. Alcoholics won't give up the drink howeve rmuch they love you etc etc so the reason it failed before is good to know. Also it helps you see if someone has emotional intelligence and an ability to explain what went wrong, understand psychology etc and is prepared to admit their mistakes kind of person or someone who think they're always right.

On new years eve to be fair he discussed his child because I asked him as I knew we'd not get any further and I wanted to fill in the time.

She fell hence the bruise. I think she hit him. Lots of wives abuse their husbands actually physically. It's not often written about but it is so. They'd gone away alone for a weekend to sort stuff out and her love had followed. You can just imagine the situation... of course he might have been lying through his teeth and anyway I didn't like him so there we are.

All I care about at the beginning is whether I swoon (and see him swoon)...

Harman, this is just another example of how he still wants to exert some form of control over you all. He's smarting because he didn't get the final say over which school the children attend and so he wants you to pay for that.

I agree that you should write to him, copying his solicitor (provided you don't still have your own solicitor acting for you), stating that the change of school was initially a joint decision (evidenced by his call to the new school about the name the children would be known by), although he subsequently dithered about it and was made with the best interest of the children in mind. That Wednesdays have always been his contact day and that, as you have had to make arrangements to accommodate the new logistics, then he will have to do the same. Explain that you have new commitments on Wednesdays (you don't have to disclose what these may (or may not!) be) and will therefore not be available to pick up from either school.

If he calls on Wednesdays, I'd let the call go to voicemail, although if the school calls you can still answer - you couldn't do that if your phone is turned off.