To feel sympathy to the National Trust volunteers at Felbrigg Hall?

[lucydogz]

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I'm pro-inclusion of minority groups, but think the NT should stick to doing it's job - looking after old houses. As most of its volunteers are retired, who might not want to be representatives of whatever right-on case the Trust decide to espouse,it's also short sighted of them to treat volunteers this way.

It is a stripy laynard and badge. What other real reason could a volunteer have for not wearing it other than bigotry?
I don't believe for a minute that it is about respecting privacy.

simon50, yes I think it was more likely the "black thing" which is still much more of a thing than alot of people realise and I assume homophobia probably is as well. When I moved from a big multi cultural city I was really shocked at the attitudes in more rural areas.

I don't see a problem with the badges and if anybody refuses to wear them based purely on them being LGBT supportive they can move to a background role, but I do think it's weird that they're apparently only focusing on one man ratehr than the property and the history.

However, the up in arms about the film thing is a bit weird. He's long gone and somebody obviously chose to use the journals. We don't moan about butting into anybody else's private lives or reading journals from say, people in the trenches of WWI or Anne Frank's diary which had some very personal information about a young girl discovering her body on top of all of the awful things she endured.

brasty
It is a stripy laynard and badge. What other real reason could a volunteer have for not wearing it other than bigotry?

Would yo say the same for the white/red poppy?
The CND badge?
Cancer awareness ribbons?

I think the fact that there are people around who knew him (including his godson) saying 'he would have hated this' makes it understandable that some people think it is wrong.

Does the absence of a badge or symbol indicate that you are against whatever cause it represents? If I don't wear a cross does it mean I am anti Christian? I don't wear a green ribbon so does this mean I don't support mental health awareness?

Old houses are full of stuff announcing heterosexuality- old family portraits, wedding dresses, engagement and wedding rings, old documents regarding paternity etc. Marriage/having children was hugely significant in the issue of managing large country houses.

I am straight and before equal marriage was implicitly announcing my heterosexuality to loads of people I met , without ever discussing my sex life. The changes in legislation in the last 50 years is massive social history.

The focus on this man is very much because at an early age, when his younger brother died in the war, realised, as he was gay, he was never going to have children so made plans to bequeath the house and contents to the NT. It is great that people are made to understand that gay people are and were everywhere, not just in the arts or London.

I think the NT have behaved fantastically over this and have taken into account all of their workforce.

They are doing an event which supports pride and gives an insight into the history of LGB rights. At the same time they have considered that some of their workforce perhaps for religious reasons may not feel entirely comfortable with this so they have decided to effectively give them an opt out from this event.

Brilliantly stuff which has considered the needs of all staff whilst still showing support for LGBT causes.

I think the fact that there are people around who knew him (including his godson) saying 'he would have hated this' makes it understandable that some people think it is wrong. Exactly. He seemed like an unshowy academic who wouldn't have liked a fuss.

Completely agree about concentrating on one theme. Feels like you miss so much out of the property.

Regardless of the cause being espoused, this is yet another example of the NT treating its (mostly elderly volunteers) like shit. Refusing to wear a badge does not = bigot. You can be very happy to welcome all kinds of people without emblazoning it on your chest. Insisting that if you don't wear one you are not fit to be in contact with the public is treating volunteers like naughty kids being kept in detention. This is a failure of NT management.
My MiL used to be a room steward and gave up largely because of the attitude of the management. Their lack of consideration that their staff were volunteers, even little things like saying they couldn't have cake with their tea break. It might seem petty, but many volunteers do so not just because they love the NT property but for the interaction with other volunteers and visitors.

This is quite a balanced article, and suggests that his being gay was well known amongst those who knew it. Unless they think being gay is somehow bad, why would more people knowing he was gay bother them? Again, as he died just after legalisation, it is likely that discretion was forced not chosen.

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/07/21/national-trust-outs-norfolk-squire-gay-48-years-death/

The campaign at this house seems to be the film, a badge and a lanyard. Shock horror!

I think the fact that he was a biographer and left his private papers to the NT was significant in that he would have understood this aspect could be studied and publicisedI would reiterate it is only mentioned as one aspect in the film and they spend as much time reciting one of his sonnets.

It is also noted that he is only one of a number of people around all the NT properties being researched as part of a project uncovering otherwise hidden LBGTQ history. So he is not being singled out.

I think the fact that there are people around who knew him (including his godson) saying 'he would have hated this' makes it understandable that some people think it is wrong.

But what exactly would he have hated? People finding out he was gay or this ridiculous hoo haa from the volunteers about stripy badges? He died 50 years ago it is impossible to know what he would have made of the world in 2017.

Toddler tease

Only focusing on the architecture and social history of straight owners (and an airbrushed version for the last owner) was the NT default until recently. Why is adding a six minute film, a badge and lanyard without removing all the existing bits so terrible?

Am I the only one who goes round old houses, looks at the lives of the owners and how the property was passed about and sometimes considers that they might have been gay? Just in passing, not as an ooooh, bet they were gay!. With a basic knowledge of social history and what was considered right and proper at the time it really doesn't need to be brought to any more prominence than any other part of a family's history.

Sorry this has clearly struck a nerve with me! I shall shut up now!

Regardless of the cause being espoused, this is yet another example of the NT treating its (mostly elderly volunteers) like shit. Refusing to wear a badge does not = bigot.

I don't think they are treating them like shit. They're giving them an opt out from an event they may feel uncomfortable with.

I agree with you, they should not be forced to wear anything, it should be an option. Treating volunteers giving up their spare time like this. If I were them, I would walk out! What's happened to democracy!

Actually, I've read a few more articles and I've changed my mind about this. Although I think that there are probably a few people with genuine concerns, the vast majority of statements I've read objecting to the campaign snack of "I'm not homophobic but..." and the only comments I can find from family members weren't particularly close ones, and some are arguing that the NT have no proof that he was gay.

No, don't shut up, it's all really interesting!

Aeroflot as you say, they don't have to wear anything as they can walk out. This is democracy surely...?

His godson says he would have hated it!!!
I doubt his godson has any idea. This man left his papers to the NT, was open with his friends and out, and implied he would have been really out if not illegal.
A godson is unlikely to know how he felt about this stuff.

Yes, I would if I felt like that. Yes they are bigots, but neither should they be forced to wear something against their wishes.

And I have no problem with volunteers in a public-facing role being obliged to wear a badge indicating that LGBTI+ visitors are welcome.

This thread makes me realise that if you scratch the surface, there is still a lot of homophobia around. I do know that those who have made comments that show that will be thinking - I am not homophobic but....