To think the government should be acting on car pollution now, not in 23 years

[ForalltheSaints]

Ending diesel and petrol cars in 2040 is all very well, but what about steps to reduce NOx and other harmful emissions now?

A diesel scrappage scheme, end all new diesel cars within 2 or 3 years, only hybrid taxis and minicabs, are all things that can be introduced very quickly. Company cars get replaced every 2 or 3 years and so changes can come in a short space of time (no diesels, under a certain g/km CO2).

Gove's ideas are just an announcement of very little if anything, because of the UK government being taken to court.

Yes they should be acting now and they should be targeting the other big pollutants, such as the aviation industry.

Part of the issue is that there isn't currently the infrastructure in place to supoort everyone moving over to electric cars right now. Its getting better all the time but would collapse with a short change over of a few years.

Its possible that they might introduce a phased change like you mention OP but then again this is a minority government so they probably have other things on their mind as this plan has only really come about because of the High Court ruling

I seriously doubt whether it will happen so soon, to be honest.

Cant see the petroleum companies rolling over and accepting it, nor can I see the government waving goodbye to the tax generated on fuel sales.

We need several new power stations in place before the cars can all be changed to electric power. And thousands of new charging points. Plus a new electricity grid to connect them all up.

Hybrid and electric cars are too expensive for many people. Many electric cars don't have a decent range and personally I would never consider one as I don't have parking so couldn't charge it at home.

A lot of things need to be considered before this idea will work.

I don't think you understand how long it takes to implement these things. For example, what happens to the company cars? Are they allowed to be sold.

The government is acting now, it's simply acting realistically and with an appropriate time frame.

Electric cars currently have minimal second hand market value due to battery life. Until this is sorted out (rental batteries that get changed maybe?) most people aren't going to buy one.

I have a government issued company car. The cars available to us have been limited by CO2 and NOx emissions for years.

I just wish they'd bring in the diesel scrappage scheme very quickly, as our diesel car has almost had it and we may just be about to afford a new one with this assistance.

I imagine with these clowns in government we'll be waiting a long time.

... and my government lease ("company") car is replaced every 4 or 5 years. Not 2!

Currently electricity generation in the U.K. can not support the number of electric cars predicted. Massive investment needs to be made in power infrastructure as well as electric vehicle research, charger network, battery technology.

Hear hear - this is the area I work in currently and this is the same old plan for a plan jazzed up with an attention grabbing gimmick attached. Reprehensible. The government knows that the real answer (defra's own evidence!) that charging clean air zones are the best short term answer but won't be seen to make LAs do it, so they've laid responsibility at their door.

You're being rather naive

Erm

The scrappage scheme is to encourage uptake of cleaner cars when people would have otherwise kept their less-environmentally friendly car on the road. It isn't a way for you to get a car on the cheap when your car woulds be off the road soon anyway.

I think the "clowns" in government are looking to clamp back on people looking for someone else to subsidise everything. If you can't afford a new car then buy a bus pass or use shanks pony.

Experts have already spoken out that they doubt we will be properly equipped in 2040 for what the government are proposing. We aren't equipped sufficiently enough for only electric cars yet.

What would really help is if they fixed the appalling public transport and infrastructure problem in this country. It keeps being said - other European countries have much better and cheaper public transport, why can't we do it? I'm not just talking about trains either - ime buses in Britain are more expensive than trains.

Although you do of course also have the problem of tackling the pro-car culture here. Some people really find the idea of being in the same space as other people on public transport appalling. I'm not quite sure where the hostility to bikes comes from.

Private cars make up about 3% of PM10 emissions in central London and about 8% of NOx. Targeting them is almost pointless.

A better start point would be taxis/buses/coaches who are closer to 25-30% for both.

Overall road transport is less than 50% for both PM10s and NOx.

But politicians hate data, and as Gove said 'the public have had enough of experts', so who needs an informed data led debate.....

There is certainly room to clean up buses and coaches, but there are many forms of pollution, if that was aimed at me.

Switching to electric cars in themselves is no panacea unless the electricity is generated in as environmentally friendly manner as possible. Things are improving in that area - no thanks to the UK government - but we are not there yet.

MiddleEnglandLives

No not aimed at you, more at the political groups (industry lobbyists, env groups, politicians etc), who seem to be unable to lay out a clear data led position.

This seems to be very common across most issues in current politics, which leads to an short termist approach, often an emotionally driven one as well. This in many instances makes the issues worse.

I'm one of the public transport haters but I've got nothing against bikes, providing people actually know how to ride them!

I hate being crammed in with hundreds of other people, I panic that I won't be able to get off if the train is crowded and I hate people thinking I want to talk to them when I'm clearly reading a book.

My journey to work takes 20 minutes by car and would take over an hour by bus. I can't think of any reason I'd willingly change to public transport!

We probably don't have enough electricity for everyone to change to electric cars. There is very little spare capacity in the system and many power stations are at the end of their life.

Electric cars aren't pollution free - the electricity used to charge them causes pollution. Even if it is solar/wind generated, the equipment used to generate this uses resources.

It would be extremely expensive to make a diesel scrappage scheme affordable to the average person. We have a large 10 year old diesel car that cost £3k. Even if we were given a large amount of money (I've heard £8k as a figure), a new electric/hybrid/petrol car of a similar size (we need a big car to pull our caravan that DP lives in when working away) would probably cost at least £10k on top and we would struggle to find that money and to be honest I don't want to spend that amount of money on a car.

Scrapping all these perfectly serviceable but polluting cars also has an environmental cost. People have been encouraged to drive diesel cars for years by lower taxes especially on company cars and lower fuel consumption. In a lot of European countries, diesel is much cheeaper than petrol per litre, so I imagine that a lot more people there drive diesel cars than petrol.

Any changes they make that are sustainable and people will accept will take a long time.

Current technology is not suitable or affordable for the demands of the mass market and a lot of people have been forced into using cars because public transport is not fit for purpose. People need their cars to get to work because they can't afford to live near work so have to live a long way away.

Imagine trying to manage childcare/school drop offs and getting to work on public transport or cycling/walking? People aren't going to accept losing hours a day to getting where they need to be on public transport. Cycling is not safe because we have very little in the way of decent infrastructure.