to feel terrified at the idea of 16 yo DD riding a moped to school in London?

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really... she and DH both think its fine.... I'm terrified... image of her getting knocked off on busy West London roads... Can understand why she wants to do it though... 50-60 minute journey by train and will probably be 25-30 mins on a moped....and of course feeling independent!

Yes but must attend a moped course with approved trainer. Who is paying for insurance, petrol, clothes, mot, service, moped? Do they have good road sense in general? It's all the unexpected things that happen and that's not including the weather. Talk about the risks. However London good transport links, is a moped really the best option for transport?

No way.

But then I lived quite near Stoke Mandeville hospital for years, seeing young people as paraplegics from coming off their bikes.

While there's breath in your body don't let her.

Hmmm, as a parent of teens in London, and a scooter rider myself my instinct is "no way', but .... My daughter's extremely sensible and 'older than her years' friend rode a moped to school from age 16-18. She had no accidents and only stopped when her lovely shiny red scooter was stolen (the biggest problem for scooter owners round here). Her journey was shorter at around 15 mins home to school, but although our area is nice we have a LOT of schools so school run traffic is pretty full on (and some can be very aggressive). I think it depends on a) Your child, and b) the journey ... which really only you can judge.

No way would either of my 16 year old DDs be doing this.

I've been amazed at how many of their year 11 class mates turned up at school on mopeds in the last few months. Very busy south London area.

I had a moped through uni. Great for independence, free parking, less good for rainy days, hairdo squashed by helmet, sweating in summer through gear.

In 5+ years I had my moped I had several accidents. Some minor (car parked on my foot, no harm done) some moderate (fell off in rain, probably broke a toe; hit by car at low speed, bruising but nothing more) and one big accident which ended my moped days (car came through red light and hit me at 40mph, brain injury and broken bones).

If she is buying it not much you can do other than advise good safety gear (proper motor bike jacket, full face helmet, reinforced trousers and boots probably saved me from more injuries in moderate and major accident). Training and advise that one accident a year is to be expected and you must protect yourself.

Will also need to have good lock, I had mirrors stolen, and my bike chain hacked at twice and then bike tried to be jump started and left lying in road after it had been crushed by car in big accident why did they want it?

My DP is in the same camp as yours, Lucisky. He says that mopeds and most scooters have vastly inferior handling and braking compared to "proper" motorbikes and are really dangerous. He wouldn't let his son have one and insisted that he waited until he was 17 and then get a proper motorbike. By the time DSS got to 17, he'd decided he'd rather learn to drive and get a car.

Could she be dissuaded by the promise of driving lessons in a year's time?

I had a moped at 16 in a rural area, then took it to uni in London. I had a couple of close shaves in both areas, including once being knocked off by a taxi who didn't look before pulling out of stationary traffic. I'd love to get another, but money and pregnancy argue against it.

Assuming my kids were sensible and trustworthy (ie not going to be giving theor mates lifts, trying to impress with wheelie stunts etc.) I'd let them get one, but would absolutely insist on all proper gear and only around the immediate neighbourhood for the first couple of weeks until they got used to the handling of it.

My mum was dead set against me having one, Dad persuaded her - and it was one of the best things for me growing up, gave me so much independence and more confidence than I'd otherwise have had.

Stats:

The number of deaths and series injuries from motorcycle and scooter accidents in London has risen.

There were 36 deaths in 2015 up from 27 in the previous year, according to the Transport for London figures. There were were also 514 serious injuries in the year up to September 2015, compared with 507 the previous year, according to provisional data.

My brother is a Royal Marine. He won't ride a moped because he thinks it's too dangerous. I have no opinions either way but if my danger seeking brother won't do it there's something wrong!

Not a chance. I know 2 women who've lost husbands on mopeds. Neither case had another vehicle involved, one skidded on some oil in the road and crashed, died from head injuries, left 2 small sons fatherless. The other swerved to avoid a drunk man staggering into the road and hit a lamppost, broke his neck and died instantly, also left 2 young sons. My sister drove a moped and had an accident which has left her with long term hip problems. They are super dangerous and to have any chance AT ALL you'd have to be an extremely experienced driver. Absolutely under no circumstances would I allow my 16 year old to drive one.

What is the commute? Will she be end-of-tube-line or far enough out train stop to get a seat? Autumn/winter weather is coming - it will be a wet 30-minute commute on a moped, but a dry catch-up-on-a-book public transport commute.

I'm afraid I would be in the Not While There's Breath in my Body camp. Black humour in hospitals mean motor cyclists are referred to os organ donors. London is treacherous enough. Then there's the stolen scooter thing.

YANBU. As a statistician it's properly dangerous.

I can't find any split for accidents between motorcycles and mopeds. My instinct would be that scooters in general are safer than motor bikes because a full strength motorcycle can easily kill you all by itself without any help from any other road user whereas mopeds are less likely to spontaneously murder you off their own bat - but I can't find any stats. But both are definitely multiples more dangerous than push bikes and walking.

To supply you with some facts: in 2015, 540 people were killed or seriously injured on a motorbike/moped in London. This is a quarter of all those killed or seriously injured on the roads in London - in comparison, motorbikes and mopeds account for just 1% of trips.

For me, it would be an absolute no for a 16 year old.

I blush to admit it but I gave mine an Uber account instead. The alternative was a bicycle or motorbike on London's Embankment. No fucking way!

We're currently having a collection in work to help raise money for a specialised wheelchair for the partner for one of our staff members after he was paralysed from the waist down in a motorcycle accident.

We also witnessed an accident outside work a year ago - motorcyclist was going one way and a bus was going the other, when an idiot in a car overtook the bus without looking properly. The bike tried to avoid the car and the rider came off into the path of the bus, and appeared to go under. Thankfully in that case the bus was coming to a stop anyway so the cyclist sudders only minor injuries, but it was horrifying to watch.

Not wanting to make you feel worse if DD goes ahead, but worth DH considering!

Whilst the deaths and injuries on motorbikes are awful, a moped is a different kettle of fish. As a previous poster has indicated, they're limited in speed to 30mph and i can easily reach that when cycling.

Also I think the mention of the word London has influenced a lot of people's reactions. Yes streets are busy, but that's true of most urban areas and it doesn't necessarily mean she'll be doing two passes of Oxford Circus every day.

If she's sensible and rides in a responsible manner, I wouldn't be overly worried.

Boys
There are quite a few London dwellers on this thread so I don't think it's a knee jerk reaction to London but actual knowledge of the roads.
I have rushed to help a moped driver in Central London taken out by a black cab doing a u turn. The moped rider did nothing wrong at all. He ended up in an ambulance, the cab barely had a scratch.

Boys i live on zone 2 and there is not a hope of my kids having a pushbike on these roads let alone a moped they can walk, bus ill even buy them driving lessons when the time comes but 2 legs good, 2 wheels bad!

YANBU.

Driving in London isn't the same as other places IMO. I try to avoid it when I can and I'm in a car. I don't think a 16 year old on a moped in London is particularly safe.

Nope nope nope, I just passed my CBT on a scooter but I have been driving a car for 21 years. There's no way a 16 year old would have the experience to navigate the roads safely. To be able to ride she would only have 1 days experience!!

DH had a motorcycle for a while. He was knocked off by someone who pulled out in front of him. Nothing too serious but it was the first time he had realised that it didn't matter how good he was on it. What mattered was how competent other road users were. Unfortunately cars are driven by humans and they make mistakes.

Something else to consider is in winter a 30min trip can leave you freezing cold. In summer you still need all the gear in case you come off. So they're not always the most practical either. I would even mention helmet hair if I thought it would help put her off.

I ride a moped every day but a) in Edinburgh and b) I learnt to drive a car first and was in my 30s before I got the scooter. There is no way I would ride a moped in London EVER. There is also no way I would encourage someone to get one as their first experience of being a road user. And when people come up next to me at the traffic lights and challenge me to race (as they do frequently ) as soon as they realise they've challenged a soon to be 50 something woman they creep off in embarrassment. Youngsters are too easily harassed. Sorry.