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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To write a strongly worded letter to my stepdad's kids?

66 replies

lelapaletute · 20/07/2017 23:13

So this is a long story, but the skinny version is this:

My mum has lifelong physical and mental health problems and has a difficult marriage with my stepfather.

My stepfather jointly owns a house with his first wife with whom he has 4 now adult children. He continued to pay off the mortgage for her after they divorced, and lived with my mum in the house she owned. They ran into serious financial difficulties after both of them were unable to find work. It nearly ended the marriage. My mum eventually sold the house, paid off their debts and bought another house outright in a cheaper part of the country.y stepdad came with her after much debate,but this was on the condition he make some attempt to leverage the asset he owned within the ex wife's house, via sale or equity release (he was very reluctant to do this, he has always been very deferential to ex wife which has caused a lot of the problems in his and DM's marriage).

When stepfather made approaches to his ex, two of his DC told him they would never speak to him again if he 'forced' their mum to sell or release equity. She refused to consider it, so to preserve his relationship with DCs DSF dropped it. His and my mother's marriage never really recovered from this.

Fast forward to now - DSF has had a stroke and is substantially impaired. My mother is now his full time carer. Neither of them work so there only income is from early released pensions (small). They are not entitled to claim any benefits due to my dad's supposed 'asset' (half his ex wife's house) which he can neither access nor relieve himself of in order to claim benefits as this would constitute voluntary deprivation of capital. They have sought legal advice and apparently there is no way the ex can be forced to sell, share the property with DSF, or release equity to him.

My mother is going under with the stress of providing him with 24 hour intimate care, has no money to pay for respite care, and is talking about suicide. Her only leveragable asset is the home they live in, which she does not want to touch as she worries she will need it to pay for her own elderly care in due course. My sister and I are giving her what support we can, but we both have little money, young families and live at the other end of the country.

WIBU to write to my DSF's children and ask them to reconsider their stance on their mother's house and ask her to reconsider equity release given these changed circumstances? At the moment it seems like my sister and I are being expected to pay for their father's care in order to protect their inheritance, and it galls me enormously.

If the ex won't budge, would I be unreasonable to encourage her to divorce my DSF? I know this may seem incredibly harsh given how ill he is, but she simply can't afford to be married to him any more, she will either kill herself or lose everything she has trying to get him adequate respite care.

If she divorced him, his children would have to accept responsibility for caring for him, and hopefully their mum would then relent and release his money from their house so he can get the care he needs. This will never happen as long as the only people making sacrifices are my mum, my sister and me.

So AIBU to expect his kids to step up?

OP posts:
Hotheadwheresthecoldbath · 21/07/2017 01:21

Trouble is they are married so half her house is his too .

Sprinklestar · 21/07/2017 03:00

But that cuts both ways. They're married so half of the other house also belongs to SF and DM (the first half being owned by the first wife).

Windytwigs · 21/07/2017 04:22

Sounds like a very different situation, but as pp said, without knowing the situation under which SF left his first wife and kids (4!) it's difficult to know what is fair. I don't think you'll get anything out of them if you write. Whatever the circumstances were under which SF continued to pay the mortgage, it sounds as if he had well and truly moved on from his first family, and as such, I don't think they'll want to liquidate assets to pay for his care. I'd be inclined to agree.

GreatFuckability · 21/07/2017 04:26

I have no idea about the whole house sale thing, but he absolutely can claim benefits. PIP is non-means tested meaning you can be a millionaire and still be eligible. If he is awarded this, your mother should be able to claim carers allowance which is also not means tested.

emmyrose2000 · 21/07/2017 05:08

It doesn't sound as though this is a tenable financial or emotional situation for your mother.

Wishing they'd get divorced seems like quite a natural reaction, but getting her/them to go through with it will be nigh on impossible if she's not willing to do so.

When stepfather made approaches to his ex, two of his DC told him they would never speak to him again if he 'forced' their mum to sell or release equity. She refused to consider it, so to preserve his relationship with DCs DSF dropped it

I can see the ex-wife and step siblings' POV in this. Your stepfather is her ex. She's not responsible for his (financial) situation now. If I was one of the kids I'd be pissed off too if someone expected my mother to sell her home and/or go into debt herself to facilitate my father and his new wife's life. If she's not legally required to release equity there's not much you can do. If she CAN be legally forced to, then be prepared for the fall out. But it's not going to magically force his kids to take on his care.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 21/07/2017 05:30

Have they had a social services assessment? I would contact them with your concerns as both sound vulnerable. If he can be placed into care then social services are quite efficient at extracting funds and can place a charge against his house to be paid when the ex wife dies/sells. You would need advice about whether they would also have a claim on your mother's house although she would be allowed to live there until she needed care herself. If they were tenants in common then they generally only place the charge against the patient's half so I think her house would probably be safe.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 21/07/2017 05:32

Ultimately though it is not about money it is about their wellbeing. She might need to say that she can't cope due to her own health and make it clear that he is being made homeless. I imagine that the first family will not be happy though.

LittleMissCantbebothered · 21/07/2017 06:07

Go and get legal advice. You step father needs to push through an Order for Sale to force the sake of the property. It is possible and is relatively easy to do.

NaiceBiscuits · 21/07/2017 06:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lelapaletute · 21/07/2017 06:57

Re the circumstances of stepfather's first divorce, his ex wife had an affair and threw him out so she could move her lover in. By all accounts DSF was devastated as he really loved her and did whatever she wanted in the divorce proceedings. Their 'understanding' (nothing legal) was that they would continue to jointly own the house rather than sell and divide up assets and he would continue to pay the mortgage in full so as to provide a home for his children (and by default the 5th child she was pregnant with by other man). I think this was with a view to him wanting to retain an interest in the property so as to have something to leave his children when he dies. They preferred this to entering into a formal child support arrangement (neither of them were wealthy and wanted to avoid lawyers). This was back in the late 70s so not sure how it would have been likely to fall had they done things differently. The EXW never sought any maintenance etc from the lover for her 5th child when he left her - she didn't need to as my DSF was funding their home entirely, also doing 'husband-y' things like DIY, picking up and dropping off (her, not the kids!), and generally at her beck and call. He continued to see a lot of his kids until he was made redundant and then his redundancy pay ran out and he stopped paying the mortgage once my mum found out about the loans he'd taken out to pay it - by that point none of his kids had lived in the property for several years and his EXW was working. Once he had no more money his relationship with his kids deteriorated.

OP posts:
lelapaletute · 21/07/2017 07:08

Re how I feel about him I think he is probably a decent bloke and I'm sorry for him. But he is bad for my mother and has been for some time (she's no angel herself I would add) and to be frank my only interest in the whole business is trying to keep her alive, ideally without beggaring myself in the process.

I bailed them out to a serious amount of money last time they were in real difficulty, and DSF would have been happy for that arrangement to continue indefinitely - it was only when my OH put his foot down and told them they had to sort it out if they wanted any more money that they finally sold up and moved to a home they could afford outright.

Back then I had a good job and no commitments. Now I'm on maternity leave and have a little baby and a house move to accommodate - there is very little slack in my chain both financially and emotionally. I need to focus entirely on what's best for my mum - it's up to his children to do the same for their dad. We are in the same situation - my parents divorced when I was 2 and my father was resident parent. I don't see why they should be less invested in their parent's wellbeing than I am in mine!

OP posts:
Kaffiene · 21/07/2017 07:13

Second what several PP have said. Aside from the house issue they absolutely are eligible for benefits and help with care. They need to put in a claim for PIP for his disability. They also need to contact the social work department and ask for a disability social work to make a health assessment for you DSF and a carers assessment for your DM. I am surprised that all of this hasn't been suggested and offered by the stroke ward. When my DF had his strokes the hospital social work department started all of these processes for us. Does he has daily living aids such as wheelchair, commode etc. If so a home assessment must have been made at some point.
Once the health assessment has been made then a financial assessment is done to determine how the care will be paid for. I am not sure the house will be taken into account as a family member still lives in it.
I get the feeling you aren't being told the whole story.

NaiceBiscuits · 21/07/2017 07:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lelapaletute · 21/07/2017 07:26

Hi KK - thanks for you and others good suggestions - all this has been set in train - if PIP and carers allowance is awarded they will probably have enough to survive on. But that will take months to sort out,esp as my stepdad keeps having falls and going back into hospital so heir assessment keeps getting delayed. And if he is only awarded lower rate PIP, mum can't get CA and hey won't have enough money to get by. Mum won't get a carers assessment because she says any assistance they award her will also be means tested and she can't afford it so what's the point (not sure that's true?)

Also interested re what people say about he house issue being down to my DSF -i have the problem of only getting my DM's version of events, from 5 hours away, and she is prone to catastrophising - it's part of her condition.

OP posts:
StillDrivingMeBonkers · 21/07/2017 07:26

He can go to court to force the sale, whether he would or not is another matter.

lelapaletute · 21/07/2017 07:28

Oh and hey had the financial assessment done yesterday - this was when they were told they would not be given any assistance due to DSF's 'asset'.

OP posts:
Brittbugs80 · 21/07/2017 07:31

If they only agreed the situation regarding the house between themselves, did they even get divorced? Only you said they didn't want solicitors involved.

When my parents divorced in the 80's, my mom stayed and kept the house until the youngest was 18 and then the house had to be sold.

It sounds like a huge part of the story is missing. She had an affair, threw him out, they both agreed for her to stay in the house and him to pay mortgage by way of child support, all grown up kids now left home, she won't sell, he married your Mom, she now owns a house outright, he's had a stroke, his kids don't want to lose their inheritance.

If they divorce he's entitled to share of the house which will also go to his kids. I don't know how it stands with the share of his house he owns with his "ex" as that would be considered in the divorce.

The only thing I can think.of is:

Him and ex wife were never married and he was never on mortgage so she could say he paid nothing

They never actually got divorced as the house would have been dealt with in divorce settlement

I'd bypass CAB and get straight to a lawyer. CAB are fine in some cases, shit in others. When I left my ex, they told me that as he was on the birth certificate, I wasn't allowed to leave the home and take our child after a violent incident because of his rights to see his child! A solicitor got me out of the house and moved us for our own protection.

Your Mom needs to sort her shit out and divorce him. It sounds like he cares more for his children who are only concerned about their inheritance.

Can you and your Mom and sister chip in for proper legal advice from a Solicitor. A firm I used charged £60 plus vat for an hour's appointment. Well worth it for correct and useful advice.

RandomMess · 21/07/2017 07:31

If he half owns ex house presumably they can still put a charge against it?

RandomMess · 21/07/2017 07:33

I mean his care could be charged against his other house...

lelapaletute · 21/07/2017 07:35

Thank you all for your advice. What I really need to do is sit down with the pair of them and hammer outcall the facts and see any relevant paperwork. Right now I don't even really know what their income and outgoings are :( but the thought of schlepping all that way with a tiny baby to try and tell a pair of grown stubborn adults what to do is not tempting. But then neither is waking up one day to find my mother has killed herself knowing I didn't do everything I could to stop that happening. On reflection it does seem to make no sense in the version I have of the situation.

OP posts:
Ellisandra · 21/07/2017 07:35

The house would not definitely have been dealt with in the settlement.

No idea what the law was in the 70s, but today it is perfectly possible to get a decree absolute having never bothered to sort out assets Shock I really don't understand why that is possible - it's crazy! But it's true.

Ellisandra · 21/07/2017 07:41

Going back to your original question...

I know I posted about section 14 TOLATA etc... but the immediate issue is do you write to his children asking them to agree to their mother releasing equity - I'd say, NO. They won't agree, even if they do, she won't agree. It will alienate them. Sounds like everyone is too far away to provide personal care, but I'd start by asking them directly to get involved in his care. Not phrasing it as supporting your mother (not their problem) but supporting him.

It doesn't sound like that'll be fruitful if they had no use for him after the money ran out before. That said, sometimes these things look worse than they are, and it could be that growing up, busy with work, starting new families, him moving away etc was also a factor.

I think that pursuing the benefits angle is the best thing you can do right now, and putting her in touch with the Samaritans and Age Concern.

lifeinthecountry · 21/07/2017 07:46

I agree with others that you're almost certainly not getting the whole story from dsf. You only know what he's told you/your mother and I can virtually guarantee it's nowhere near the truth.

You're also giving a very one-sided version of events and I'm sure their version would differ markedly.

What you're talking about is barging into the life of another, also now old, lady and trying to take her home from her. She may have health issues you know nothing about. And in the process, you'll be trampling over whatever remnants of a relationship dsf might have with his adult dc. (And if there is no relationship to speak of, I can guarantee there is an actual reason for that, beyond them only being interested when he had money.) I'm sorry, but I think that would be overstepping.

Focus on getting dm and dsf the help they need via benefits, etc., - PP have made some excellent suggestions above - and don't throw any more of your own money at the problem.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 21/07/2017 07:55

This is where a decent Soliciter is worth their salt - really get off here and shop around for some legal advice OP

She might have to divorce him

And why she is doing 100% care ? If his kids won't help then fuck em

lifeinthecountry · 21/07/2017 08:07
  • sorry, should also have said if you are seriously concerned about your dm mental health, please refer her to the local mental health team today (I think you may need to go via her GP).

You can't keep her safe from a distance and she needs an emergency plan in place so she has somewhere to turn when things get bad for her.