AIBU to think that females can in fact be criminals

[worridmum]

Sorry for posting this here but I attended a seminar about feminism and one of the main topics was that of female prisons and how in a just society there should not be any because apprently females cannot be criminals as females who commit crime are just sick and should be in out patiant treatment centres.

It went further and suggested that all female crime root cause was men. for every crime they commited a man was usaually involed eg ether making them do it or not stopping them, with examples of NRP not paying enough CM meaning the mother had to shop lift to get food for her child despite being a self confessed heavy smoker/drinker and that she should not of been in prison but her child's dad should be for forcing her to become a criminal.

She went further and suggested that one of the main root causes of all crime and particaully female crime was caused by influences of there father and was suggesting that men should have less input/involement in their childs lives because they are one of the main causes of crime.

AIBU to think that she is talking total bollackis and suggesting that no woman has antomany over their own actions as what ever they do it is because of a man. and to think that what she is sprouting is boardering on hate speech as if you replace the word man with black person / muslim it would be shut down as a hate crime.

AIBU in also thinking that it is both toxic and dangerous for society as whole if these sort of views are not challanged and feel sorry for her son as she said she would be raising him to be aware that because of his sex he is a boarderline monster and a route cause of all problems in society.

(sorry for spelling errors that might be present I am dysixlica and my phone has a rubbish spell checker and for not naming names as I dont want to out myself or open myself up for slander by identifying the speakers)

Ffs appalling grammar in that last post. I really should proofread

This post reminds me of the time the resident racists in my office (years ago in a different workplace) had to attend equality and diversity training and came back ranting about how they had been told that people of colour (not the phrase they used) can do no wrong and all white people are actively and deliberately racist and that even disagreeing with a person of colour over anything made you a racist. It was, of course, all bullshit.

How does locking someone up for not having a TV licence give their community a break? They aren't affecting the community. Plus, we have a ridiculously high rate of recidivism in this country, due in part to imprisoning people for minor offences, instead of dealing with the issues that cause that kind of offending, as they do successfully in other countries.

Also, the OP still hasn't named the speaker.

This is a weird thread I agree.

It's a thought provoking argument, although it does sound massively ovee simplified.

I agree anyone who commits a crime is a criminal, the question is how to deal with them/ stop them re offending.

I work in the criminal justice system.

There are far fewer women than men committing crime. Women do seem to be focused in certain crimes, fraud, theft, cultivating or being concerned in drug offences. Rarely serious violence, very rarely sexual offences. Often in fraud and drug offences there is a man involved. Using the woman's flat to grow cannabis, putting her under pressure to commit benefit fraud.

Obviously some men have influences in their lives too that push them down the wrong path. But tbf those are explored alot. Issues affecting women can be mentioned without people screaming "and men too!" "what about the menz?"

I do not have the money to defend myself as it would be under US court system rather then UK system....

Your 1st Amendment rights allow you to express whatever opinion you want on this speaker. Isn't Mumsnet a U.K. hosted site? In which case the US legal system doesn't have jurisdiction anyway.

I call bullshit. There are some odd radfem beliefs, but these are too batshit crazy to be real.

As of June 2017, 6.7% of prisoners in the USA, and 4.7% in the U.K. are female.

Saskia how many people are locked up for not paying their tv licence?

Plus, we have a ridiculously high rate of recidivism in this country, due in part to imprisoning people for minor offences

No we really don't. You have to work ridiculously hard to get sent to prison these days. I've completed case files for offenders with 50+ offences and they've never been sent down

Yeah, sure you have. And I'm Jane Austin.

A lot of people go to prison for not having TV licences, and yes, we do have a high rate of recidivism, especially when compared to other Northern European countries.

People go to prison for not paying fines from the court because of non payment of TV licence. Know one has ever gone to prison for not paying a tv licence.

Don't split hairs, the point is still perfectly valid.

My partner received a fine from the court for some car related incident either speeding or holding a phone I cant remember which. If I never paid the fine in time he would go to prison. Its not splitting hairs its the court they are dealing with now not tv licence or who ever.

Considering that the OP has rather bad ortography, I conclude they must have misunderstood what was said.

It is true that MANY female prisoners are in prison due to male violence (those who take drugs to cope with trauma inflicted by a male, for example) and that also a lot of women land in prison because they do what patriarchy teaches them to do and go along with whatever their man does and wants.

However, it would be very silly to claim that no woman ever commits a crime of her own accord.

I'm guessing the seminar was about general trends, not about "all women ever", and the OP tried to distract from the topic with "what about the men".

One cannot take broad class analysis and pretend that it is a statement about every individual ever. Which seems to me is what happened here.

Women are sent to prison when they actually need help, and women are treated badly in prison, what with being shipped to some prison far away from home where no one can visit and then not given adequate education and job opportunities in prison because there are so few female criminals they aren't deemed worth the effort.

The question of whether or not some women are actually hardened criminals who committed their crime without any influence by a man is a red herring that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

People go to prison for not paying fines from the court because of non payment of TV licence.

Doesn't make any difference, does it?

If someone has no money to pay their TV license, they also don't have money to pay the fine.

Sending people to prison for being poor is a waste of money, considering that prison costs a lot more than the TV license.

More women than men are caught without a tv licence because they are more likely to be at home. TV licence is a pain in the arse for some people and there are people out there trying to make changes to it.

Saskia, do you think for just one second that maybe just maybe there maybe someone out there on mumsnet who has direct experience of the things they're talking about? Or are you that arrogant you believe that you know best? How long have you worked for the CJS and in what role?

Since you're so sure if yourself, how many women have been sent to prison for not having a tv licence?

"My partner received a fine from the court for some car related incident either speeding or holding a phone I cant remember which. If I never paid the fine in time he would go to prison."

Why did you have to pay your partner's fine?

Out of his money of course £300 is a lot of money when we have kids to feed and a roof to keep over our heads.

No, not arrogant, I've just seen far too many people who think they can pitch up here, claim any old thing and automatically be believed. Maybe you do work in some kind of legal position but we have no way of knowing if you do, do we? Or are you so arrogant you think people should believe you are anyne or anything you claim to be?

Well in that case there's no point in mumsnet at all is there?

Do you do the same on the relationship board when someone's asking for help with DV, Since there's no way of finding out who they are? Or is it just when their post goes against your opinion?

I rarely post on the relationship boards. And even if I do, giving general advice or sympathy about a problem is not the same as claiming to have professional knowledge of something. A better analogy would be to ask if I go on to threads about medical or legal problems stating that I can speak with authority about a subject. But I don't do that because even if I were a legal or medical professional it would be unwise for me to offer advice when the person receiving it has of way of knowing if I am genuine.

Because she's Vicky Pryce.

That was to SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed

I don't know who that is.

does whacking a woman in jail for not paying her TV license solve anything? I suppose it solves about as much as whacking a man in jail for not paying his TV license.