What would you (or social services [shock] make of this?

[CodeineAddict22]

Someone taking Codiene tablets apart, lots of them (not sure of exact number) and then liquidising them and taking them like that?

Kitchen is like a scene from The Nightmare Before Christmas (mad scientist?)

I don't know what to do.

How easy is cold water extraction though Cinderllas? I am not an expert, but unless he's Walter White I would be more worried that he is getting that wrong, and unknowingly ingesting large amounts of paracetemol than I would be about the codeine. Isn't it particularly dangerous due to the cumulative effect?

^Obviously not asking for any details at all on the method. Just that I suspect it isn't as easy as desperate people assume it is, but don't know much about it. I worry that it could lead someone into a false sense of security that the paracetomol has gone, when it hasn't. And addicts are not great at assessing risk.

I would be worried about him driving the kids or even cooking for them. I would definitely try and get some photos and report to child services. Living with an addict is soul-destroying.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08ywk12/addicted-parents-last-chance-to-keep-my-children-series-1-1-mums

I suggest you watch this because there's nothing mild about a full blown codeine addiction. It ruins lives. I'm extremely careful and well informed because I'm aware of the dangers. There's a big difference between a few doses per day as prescribed and going to the lengths of cold water extraction. This person needs help and is harming themselves. Long term opiate abuse can damage the receptors in the brain which can cause more pain.

My cousin went cold turkey once she'd realised that she needed to take more and more tablets to get her 'hit' so to speak.

3 days and she was drug free and will not take anything again - not even an aspirin/paracetamol for a headache.

I absolutely agree codeine is addictive - what I don't agree with it's as damaging as heroin, crack cocaine and worthy of social service involvement/child protection.

My cousin thankfully had an HR department who knew she had children, who she confided in and didn't deem it necessary her children were 'at risk'. They never were, as is the case in the majority of codeine addicts (that I've read). It could be compared to an anti-anxiety pill which many parents take daily without question.

Problem is, as I alluded to, is everyone is different. Goggle buprenophine withdrawal, many find it very addicted and very difficult to get off. I came off cold turkey no issue. Same with codeine, tramadol and tapentadol. Your cousin is lucky like me. I just can't come off completely as I have severe chronic pain, I often accidentally withdraw and start with jitters, hot flushes and stomach cramps.

Despite my experience I'm not ignorant enough to see that it's very harmful for many other people and highly addictive. You can absolutely over dose, as the woman on the documentary did accidentally. All opiates are dangerous if you take too much.

It's nothing like taking anti depressants as you build tolerance to codeine and need more for that mild eutrophic feeling. The more you take the more you need. Anti depressants, taken for anxiety, won't usual have any high. Benzodiazepines for anxiety are very addictive and destructive long term.

It's possible a functioning heroin addict could parent without children being flagged for removal. It's also possible a codeine addiction will impact the ability too parent safely. The lines are blurry and it's a judgement call. That's why we pay social workers, and not mumsnetters, to investigate.

I'd like to think I'm not ignorant either having read up on opiates and directly affected by a family member who was an addict.

Yes codeine can be harmfull in long term addiction - What I disagree with is that co-codamol and over the counter codeine is as dangerous as heroin - it isn't!

Anyway, we each hold our own opinion based on experience - what really grates is people posting their opinion as facts such as children being removed etc.

ShastaBeast Thu 20-Jul-17 00:12:44
It's nothing like taking anti depressants as you build tolerance to codeine and need more for that mild eutrophic feeling. The more you take the more you need. Anti depressants, taken for anxiety, won't usual have any high. Benzodiazepines for anxiety are very addictive and destructive long term.

Couldn't disagree more - otherwise why the difference in strength - i.e 10 mg, 100 mg depending on the person. Again, not my experience but going on personal experience with family/friends the dose is absolutely reconsidered according to need.

It doesn't sound like your cousin was addicted, just building tolerance - this is normal and happens even if taking as directed by the dr.

Withdrawal is also different from addiction, withdrawal being the physical adjustment back to normal. Addiction can be far more complex and rooted in psychological issues requiring a lot more support to resolve than a few days cold turkey.

Again, I disagree. My cousin got sweats and shakes and felt anxiety.

I'm not arguing about the detrimental effects of taking drugs or over using over the counter drugs such as codeine - what I do argue with is that codeine addicts = social services. IME it definitely doesn't and equating it to heroin addicts, crack cocaine etc and bringing social workers into it is a waste of bloody valuable resources - they are NOT in the same league.

Usually you settle on a dose of anti depressant - based on my actual experience - you scale up the dose to find a maintenance dose. You can stay at that dose for many years. Different people may require higher or lower doses depending on their own brain chemistry. It is possible for a drug to stop working but usually this happens over the long term.

This is the same for other brain meds I've taken for nerve pain.

Opiates always quickly build tolerance if you are trying to get a 'high'. You just won't get the same 'hit' as the time before. You can come off for a while to rebuild some tolerance but it quickly rebuilds - possibly quicker if damage is done to the morphine receptors. Have a read up on Wikipedia- I spent many a night researching various drugs including antidepressants and opiates due to severe pain causing insomnia. I also spent a few hours with a consultant and specialist drug nurse learning about pain meds, their mechanisms and harm potential.

What are you disagreeing with? Your cousin got shakes and anxiety- these are withdrawal symptoms not signs of addiction. Go read up in a subject before pontificating rubbish.

The lessons on pain meds were within a specialist centre where they deal with addiction and withdrawal on a daily basis. Far more reliable than what your cousin claims.

I wish people wouldn't post when they clearly don't know what they are talking about. It's bloody dangerous.

Op I hope you can make a judgement call. Opiate addiction can be a big issue but it's hard to know if you need to get help. It sounds far more serious than the 'cousin's addiction', cold water extraction is pretty serious and determined. It's possible to use codeine and be of no danger but it can spiral and lead to overdose or stronger drugs.

Cinderlla.
It's simplistic to say that social services wouldn't get involved if someone is addicted to codeine because it's not in the same league as heroin. As a social worker I don't give a shit what people are addicted to, I care about the impact on the children. If there are two neighbours, 1 who was addicted to heroin but managed to maintain things fairly well and the children were not being harmed as a result, and another addicted to codeine who was experiencing every part of their life being affected, and the children were being severely neglected as a result, we're going to be involved the the second one, not the first. Ignoring the neighbour bit, I've known both scenarios happen.

As for comparing codeine to heroin? Give your head a wobble - yes it's from the same opiate family but in no way similar to heroin as in socially, hard core etc they use methadone during detox of you watch the programme mentioned up thread.

**if

I think that one of the main differences cind is that your cousin realised she had a problem and sought help. She didn't turn her kitchen into a codeine purifying lab. The op has said the guy in her example has refused help - going to the lengths he is going to and not acknowledging he has a problem is very worrying.

Codene is an opiate. Watched a to programme on BBC about last chance mums - addicts who were in rehab. One was addicted to codine and was given methadone substitute like a heroin addict.

If you don't know what to do then report it and let the experts decide what to do.

New daylight is spot on, it's about assessing the impact on the children and management of the situation.

This is a job for the social workers not for mumsnet.