To wonder why people give out their personal data without a second thought?

[AssignedMentalAtBirth]

Wanted to have a discussion about the data we are putting out there. For example, so much personal information on Facebook, using their own names on twitter, discussing personal preferences, history, political leanings and much more

Having trillions of store cards, giving out their details online to get an extra 10% off etc. Logging into accounts using your Facebook or Google passport seems to be particular reckless

I am very careful with the information I give out. I have no online presence, no store cards, use a cookie blocker etc. You cannot find me using web browsers.

I used to work in data analysis when it was relatively difficult to match data sets from differing sources. Now it is extremely easy. These companies have a huge deal of information on people, then they sell it on, when it is matched with other sources.

What I really fear is the imposition of a national ID card, which can then be associated with all this data. Then it's really Big Brother time

Anyone else think the same? Or am I just paranoid?

shox as I said, turn GPS and location services off. Very simple.

Yeah I know you can do exploded.

My phone always nags me to turn it back on if you do that though. Also I don't think my journeys are interesting to anyone so I'm not too worried about it.

I have experience of collecting personal data, data brokering etc. It's a total racket - most data is totally worthless. Matching data is incredibly difficult and tracking people gives you heaps of useless information.

'They' are also people. If 'they' are out to get you then they'll get you, by finding the physical body that you can only hide for so long. If you can be 'got' then they can also be 'got.' Totatalitarian regimes fall apart through paranoia and eventually stumble over the fact that most people are actually dull as shit.

Paranoid - and rightly so. I'm no conspiracy theorist/tin hat wearer but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the likes of Zuckerberg, Google etc were heavily invested in by the US state, in order to mine all that information. And can you imagine what a dream Facebook would have been to the Stasi, KGB and Nazi Germany? It wouldn't be beyond a malevolent state not only to require the carrying of ID cards, but to require the carrying of location-tracking devices. Oh wait, we've already got those, they're called our mobile phones.
As the Information Commissioner said a few years ago, we're sleep walking into a surveillance society.

And what are 'they' going to do in the 'surveillance society'? Most people just go about their lives, doing not very much. Tracking them is really pointless, boring and a waste of time.

Wow they will find out my views on baby names, that I am a feminist, and where I shop. Seriously there is more interesting stuff publically googable about me in my work role. I have no choice about that being available.
If you are a plotting revolutionary, you don't post on face book about it, or DM people on mumsnet about it.
Sorry to be so cynical, but as I have already said, the adverts I see that are supposedly based on data collected about me, are so way out and not what I would be interested in.If they can't even tell that you are commenting to say a particular dress is horrible, and instead show you adverts of it, I don't think we need to worry yet.
It is true if you watch Tracked, that social media and other data can be used to predict how people on the run will behave. But for most people, the data is worthless and boring.

I have experience of collecting personal data, data brokering etc. It's a total racket - most data is totally worthless. Matching data is incredibly difficult and tracking people gives you heaps of useless information.

Also this ^

I worked with the company that owns one of the major supermarket loyalty cards, so there was a lot of interest in matching consumer purchase records with other behaviour.

The only sensible unique identifier that exists across two datasets is usually email address or telephone number (home address can contain several people, names are utterly non-unique, loyalty card details only held in one of the datasets etc.).

In addition to the ethical and commercial reasons why matching data wouldn't be allowed, the logistics are almost impossible. Not least as we found that consumers had an average of 3 email addresses each, so we could have the same user record in two places, and have no idea as the email addresses were different.

Anyway, I digress.

Exactly. People should be worried about the snoopers charter bill or whatever it's called even if they don't have "anything to hide". Those posts you made on mumsnet about wanting to give xx politician a slap in the face may seem funny now but down the line, if they want to question or pin something on you, all of a sudden you have incited violence against a member of the cabinet and must be called in to explain yourself. What you legally google today could tomorrow be considered illegal and they'll have a nice little trail of all these "illegal" activities on you.

Of course that's without the fraudulent aspect as well. "Yay me and the boyfriend are going on holiday tomorrow for two weeks, can't wait, Spain, here we come woooohooo" translates to "Empty house for two weeks. Anything for the taking"!

I'm amazed at how often I've had to explain to very intelligent people that collecting data without a specific question in mind is utterly pointless. In order to say something meaningful about people you first have to decide what you want to know and you then have to collect complete and accurate data from a very specific set of people. If there are gaps in your data or your data is confused in any way then most of what you can glean is shaky at best. So, say for example I want to find out something completely boring like how many mothers buy Persil from Tesco data. How do I find out if they're mothers? Well I can pick a particular childbearing age range and then pull out all the women who have bought nappies more than 10 times in the last year. We can assume they're mums (though we can't be certain - they could be foster carers, young grannies, shopping for their nieces and nephews). Ok so what percentage of those mums buy Persil. Turns out 25% of them bought Persil at least once in the last year. Great. What does that tell us? Fuck all really. We can find out how many bottles of Persil sell generally by just looking at sales figures. To find out anything meaningful say, why there aren't more mothers buying Persil, you have to ask them. Data is pretty worthless.

The thing you need to remember is the vast majority of people are completely boring and their twitter, FB, store cards etc are of no interest or real use to anyone.
You overestimate anyones interest in your online activities and personal info.

Alternatively you could join a FB group for say support over a personal matter and your membership of that group is used to target your other friends. I have a friend (really not me) who has joined a survivors group for a particular thing, that group pops up as a suggestion for me usually with a few pictures of her and her fellow group members who aren't my fb friends.
Now fair enough it might be an open group or a public group. And maybe they are 100% open about it. But what if a picture of someone I recognise pops up alongside my friend's? What if I didn't know?
It's made me think carefully about whether I would seek support through FB groups.

The thing you need to remember is the vast majority of people are completely boring and their twitter, FB, store cards etc are of no interest or real use to anyone.
You overestimate anyones interest in your online activities and personal info

I naively thought this and ended up with a stalker who found me in real life by process of deduction and joining up friends activities etc on social media and I've never used my real name online but friends did and his clever detective work got lots of info about me from them. Over ten years later I'm still worried about him finding me. It may not always be the govt or corporations who want your data or who can use it against you...

That's true teabag, but stalkers have always existed - that problem isn't created by online data.

I agree with you 100% OP and you are definitely not paranoid. I don't use FB or any social media and believe that those who post about all the (mostly boring to anyone but them) details of their lives may one day regret it.

As for ID cards - I'm a definite refusenik - they can chuck me and my walking frame in jail as I will never carry one.

This is vaguely my area of expertise; the theory behind big data analysis type stuff anyway.

You're being extremely paranoid OP. The people who think they have little / no digital footprint are nearly as easily found as those who care less and do have store cards use social media and whatever else.

Surely, from your background in data analysis, you understand that no one really cares about you in particular, if they did they could track you and that pervasive technology is wonderful.

Cornycopia

I am well aware that the security services could track me if they wanted to. But providing them, and anyone else with a complete personality profile is quite different

Data merging is NOT difficult if there is a common key. If an ID card were to be introduced, this would be THE common key and it would start to be demanded from all manner of companies, and behold, a complete record for the government and a pretty good record for commercial companies, who could then buy data such as fitbit activity or whatever

"Yay me and the boyfriend are going on holiday tomorrow for two weeks, can't wait, Spain, here we come woooohooo" translates to "Empty house for two weeks. Anything for the taking"!

Only if you advertise your address as well. Which, if you do so publicly, you're stupid. Meanwhile, most people post about holidays and stuff under either anonymous accounts which aren't linked to their address or their private accounts which are visible to friends and family, who probably know both where you live and the fact you're going on holiday, and who could probably rob you far easier when they're round at yours for a BBQ.

Of course lots of people have massive friend lists on FB etc including people who they'd never dream of inviting round for a BBQ but hey.

I really don't care who has my data. Let them collect all of my warblings, most of them are totally useless!

Home phones were far more useful for finding out which houses to rob. Find out a few phone numbers, ring them, if no one answers the house is empty. Nowadays that's not so easy because many people don't have home phones any more.

I have an ID card. The data connected with it is all stuff that is already known and in the public domain. I'm more worried about social media/phone data.

AMD724

"It doesn't matter if you have nothing to hide, why give away all of your information, for it to then be used against you"

Exactly.

And it's not just the threat of totalitarian government. Corporate companies will certainly use your data to make more money.

On another note, in the US, there is serious talk about making people entering at immigration reveal their social media and email passwords before entry. So access to some serious personal information.

uk.businessinsider.com/john-kelly-travel-ban-social-media-password-2017-2?r=US&IR=T

Thin edge etc

It really doesn't bother me at all. I have facebook, twitter, post video's on youtube, I've just started a blog and have many store cards etc.

I have nothing to hide. ID cards wouldn't bother me either to be honest.

I'm amazed though how willing people are to volunteer information. TK Maxx this morning wanted my postcode, another store wanted my email address etc. Neither got what they wanted from me but judging by the reactions of the shop assistants I am in a very small minority who don't co -operate.

I thought people might be more measured when commenting on Facebook, given that most people use their real name on their profile. But that's not the case. Most online comments leave me to despair of humanity! People certainly don't seem afraid to spout very objectionable views even when these can be linked to their name.

Why on earth would an ID card be "demanded" by companies anyway? We already have forms of national ID as in driving licence and passport. The only time I've ever had my passport number recorded was for official government stuff (like getting my child's passport) or very high security things like opening a bank account or when it's relevant e.g. checking in for a flight. Even if you show driving licence/passport for proof of age they only glance at it, they don't take a copy.