To ask for help with this clusterfuck again (any CAFCASS knowledge?)

[Welshmaenad]

This one requires the backstory which is on my post here: https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/2961751-how-the-hell-to-explain-to-dc-why-i-m-withholding-contact

As per that thread, DC contact with ex has resumed following his short term assurance his GF won't be around them. We are in court in 2 weeks for a hearing of my application of a prohibited steps order.

I noticed that recently my eldest DC was taking herself off and closing doors at points in her phone conversations with her father. She did it last night and I casually enquired why - stressing that I didn't mind but it was unusual behaviour.

She burst into hysterical tears and told me her dad had been putting GF on the phone to talk to her. She said he initiated this, she didn't ask. She told me he had told her to keep this from me. She then said he had been talking to her about GF and how much she missed them and liked them and 'would never hurt them' and had given her a notebook to write her feelings down in so he could show CAFCASS her thoughts (presumably on how she wants to see GF again). She is very young for her age and impressionable and her analysis of the situation is that GF is nice because she bought DD a Beauty and the Beast sticker book.

I cannot imagine that CAFCASS have asked him to do this as no mention was made to me by them of garnering the DC's feelings in the situation as it is a complex safeguarding issue that I don't feel they can fully understand. Surely they would not have asked their father to gather 'evidence' in this way without telling me or making other arrangements to consult the children?

Poor DD is really confused and upset by it all and worried about having told me things when her dad told her not to but said she didn't want to lie to me

Does anyone have experience of CAFCASS using this tactic? Obviously I can't contact them until tomorrow. This is actually starting to feel like he is attempting parental alienation, and telling my children that I'm being mean and unreasonable. I don't feel it's in DD's best interests to develop a deeper bond with this woman when Social Services have supported my viewpoint that she shouldn't be around my children, and I fee he is manipulating her naivety to strengthen his own position with the courts. How on earth do I tackle this???

Your ex does not have your children's best interests at heart by putting them through this. I cannot see CAFCAS using a tactic where a child would be encouraged to lie and make them incredibly stressed.

I would personally speak to your ex and tell him that you know what has been happening and that this is wholly unfair to your daughter.

Thank you Agnes. I'm just so angry and upset that DD is experiencing this stress when there is just no need for it.

Alright Welshie, Essex here

In my experience cafcass are awful and very much on the side of fathers getting contact by whatever means. I managed to get supervised contact in their offices at first and it was a shambles. No easing in gently just straight into letting ex give 3 year old monkey a load of sweets before doing anything (he hadn't seen him for nearly 2 years) then Writing in their report that he cried when we left because he didn't want to leave dad. Nothing to do with him being 3 and not liking the pram.

Sounds like he's been advised (poss by a solicitor) to do this so that cafcass will be easily swayed. Not sure if that's any help x

Another vote for cafcass being twats. .

A judge won't take kindly to this - cafcass are supposed to be impartial but have found that to be a lie - 4 years of bs from them. . Write everything down. Ask dd to write things down too. .
Speak to your solicitor tomorrow. .
Good luck op. . If you need any more advice however small just ask. . Its a living hell I know too well. Report to Ss also.

Cafcass will not have told him to do this. He is placing them under emotional harm and you do need to tell cafcass of the impact that this is having.

Don't have any specific advice for your situation but just wanted to say that in my very long (2.5 years) court case regarding my dd2 CAFCASS were fantastic and saw straight through my ex and his behaviour, and ultimately it was them who advised the judge to keep him away from her. They are not all bad!

Essex!

I don't think he has a solicitor. I think he's getting 'legal' advice from the fathers for justice forum, from the tone of some of his emails, and the lack of comprehension about how SS work.

I don't feel like approaching him is going to be helpful as he's so combative these days. I'm going to ring CAFCASS tomorrow and ask if they've instructed him to do this and express my concerns that he is emotionally manipulating DD to bolster his case. I may also ring SS and ask further advice as they have case notes on the situation and the advice they've given me. They actually told me just to withhold contact and it was me who pushed for the agreement of her absence so it could go ahead, so I have evidence in not trying to stop contact with him - just her.

CAFCASS lady I spoke to was actually very warm and positive - told me I was "doing the right thing" and said "good luck in court" so I'd be surprised if she has advised him to do this.

I just don't know how to deal with all this. Before she appeared, we had s good, friendly coparenting relationship, and now he's preparing secret dossiers and trying to use our child against me.

I'd very much doubt that CAFCASS have encouraged him to include the GF at all in contact, especially in such a secretive way. Personal prior experience is that they wanted to improve the relationship between the child and their parent and had no concern for improving relationships with other parties. Certainly in our case the outside party purchasing gifts was seen as an attempt to bribe the affections of the child and was very frowned upon.

Definitely give them a call with your concerns especially as your daughter has been left feeling scared and conflicted by being made to keep the contact secret, let's face it CAFCASS aren't going to encourage the idea that your child should keep secrets from you, that would be a massive safeguarding issue.

Doesnt SS opinion hold the most weight in court? I'd hope that once they say a big fat NO then what Dad or Cafcass say should be irrelevant? I bet it bloody isn't though is it?

Hi OP.

CAFCASS will not have recommended the "writing down of thoughts" about GF - essentially he is encouraging her to rehearse answers for when CAFCASS do ask her thoughts. That's very unhelpful and very, very leading for a small child.

You need to tell CAFCASS this as soon as you can, and also about the secrecy around talking to GF on the phone. That is very clearly not in the child's best interests.

Yes, it sounds very much like fathers for justice advice. Have you had a nose on their forums?

Nah, you have to pay for access and I'm not willing to support their nonsense.

Just a little update- I spoke to CAFCASS this morning and they have absolutely not asked him to do this and actually sounded quite horrified.

I'm waiting for a call back from social services (the original social worker I spoke to who advised me to withhold contact) as I feel it needs noting and I'd quite like their guidance on how the fuck to handle this.