Aibu to think it might be getting more common for schools to kick sixth formers out after a year if they're not going to get great grades?

[DeeNR]

Our local comprehensives have all started doing it now, presumably to protect their results. Should league tables show the numbers involved?

It happened 25 years ago when I was at 6th form. If you didn't pass your end of year exams (no AS levels then) you were advised to leave or change course.

I agree they maybe should have to show numbers / % of drop outs (though of course that might stop them taking on riskier pupils).

However maybe better to drop out of A levels after 1 year if you are on track for E/U grades, and switch to e.g. BTEC, than continue for 2 and get the E/Us?

Surely it's better to have an honest conversation with a 17yo than let them continue and waste another year if they're not going to get anywhere, let them consider their options.
I think it would be cruel for a school to continue taking the funds for a pupil they know will get nothing at the end.

It's not just about the school getting vapid grades though.
Schools do know their students and teachers know the requirements of post 16 courses. Normally, and I do completely accept that some students will buck this trend, students will move up maybe a grade during Year 13. If a student finishes Yr 12 on U's or E grades then chances are another year of study isn't going to be the best use of their time. They would be better off retaking the Year with different subjects, a different type of qualification such as BTECs rather than A-levels, an apprenticeship, or spending time working and allowing themselves to mature a bit.
Schools don't want to "kick kids out", sixth form centres often pay for a lot of the rest of the school's spending. They do want wants best for their students, two years of study with nothing or very little to show for it is not in any persons best interest.
Of course there are individual cases where students have been let down, but as a sweeping generalisation I don't agree with your OP.

Good not vapid obviously 😳

It's not easy to kick someone out as they have to be in education or training until they are 18. The school would usually have to show evidence they had tried to support that student first. Schools also get money per head and will not get that money for students who drop out.

Teachers tend to know who will pass or fail within the first term anyway so if you are told by the school that your child will fail i don't really understand why you would want them to continue on a course for another year. Surely it's better to take the advice and find something more suitable for them.

One of mine was asked to leave after poor AS results. He changed college, did a two year BTEC and got top grades and is now at uni. Another of mine got disastrous AS results after really good GCSE's, so changed college, re-did AS and A levels, got excellent grades and went on to university. At the time it was totally unexpected for each of them to do so badly at AS level and we were unaware when it happened with the first that he could re-do year 12 at another college and have another crack at it. But it all came out good in the end.

Always happened where I teach, if they bomb year 12, no point in going onto year 13. If they are borderline at the end of year 12, then they can retake year 12 or drop a subject. Works well.

Agree it's not in a pupil"s best interest to continue if they're going to get rubbish results but I'd be interested to know the numbers involved. I'm looking at league tables amongst other things to try to choose a place and wonder if they're worth looking at at all

There's a difference between "if they're not going to get anything" and "if they're not going to get the kind of results our school expects".

Two reputable Sixth Form colleges locally, both tending to get very good results, but one is very hot on pastoral support, the other is known to ask students to move on if they are not performing to expectations. Dd attended the first, together with a cohort of her friends, they all stayed on; another group of her friends went to the second and several of them had to move after their first year.

cory you wouldn't be in Hampshire would you? My Y10 DD is currently considering her options.

Oh, and I think schools and sixth form colleges should be made to publish their drop-out rates as universities (I believe) have to.

Gallicos, we looked round PS and BP but DD went elsewhere (foresty) in the end and started an A level + BTEC.

If pastoral care is important, really drill down, because where DD went we found it didn't live up to our expectations.

I would ask the subjects re their drop out rates and also grade profiles depending on incoming grades. On the secondary board there are a few Hants parents who would no doubt happily give their views.

My eldest has just retaken yr12 with new subjects as he did badly the first time round - he and his teachers agreed that he had too much to "make up" and that wasn't going to happen in a year.

It was a good decision. He is happier, more focussed and getting good grades in his rechosen subjects.

I understand where pupils are clearly better trying a different subject or Btec
However some A level students are asked to get a B or C grade to continue to year 13 ( that's after selecting them on GCSE results) I don't think that's in the best interests of the students.
Then the same school will crow about their superb A level results !!

no, it is not getting more common, it is universal, and always has been. Schools set a minimum attainment to apply to return for year 13, and any student who doesn't make it can expect not to be reenrolled.

The figures are published and available, look at retention rates

Funding changes from year to year, but it is rare to be able to get funding for a student who has not progressed, and rare for schools to take them without funding. There are exceptions of course, but few.

It's difficult to know what to do when you have a child who is under performing. Ds has come out with CUU at the end of lower sixth. Just not really sure of the best way forward. He doesn't need high A level grades for the course he wants to study at uni, BCC would do it, but it doesn't look likely at the moment.

There was always a massive drop out at the end of Y12 when AS results came in.

Schools with 6th Forms are encouraged to grab pupils - because 6th Formers bring in a bigger bounty than Y7-11. Almost twice as much. A large 6th form pays for a great deal of KS4 and 5.

Morally wrong of course, but I've worked in an environment where a particular pod of girls were set to go to college, were discouraged from doing so with the promise the school would run the same vocational course. The course was then dropped, they girls had already rejected their college places and had to waste a year on pointless AS levels they had no hope of attaining. All the school really wanted was the enrolment and the funding.

I am indeed Gallicos. And don't get me wrong, both excellent colleges, just that BP is more tolerant with struggling students.

gallicos

I am in hampshire

Ds1 looked at BP but didnt go there in the end

He crashed and burned in his AS levels but his 6th form college were very helpful in keeping him on

I do know a few other children that were kept on from the previous years, the college were very good at finding other A levels for them or dropping them to one or two A levels if they wanted and giving them a 'second chance'

no, it is not getting more common, it is universal, and always has been.

That isn't strictly true. Changes to funding have affected how post 16 providers can offer students a chance to do a 3 year 6th form.

you can do three years in the sixth form, this is normally one year redoing GCSEs or other level 2 courses, or one change of course, as long as the school can argue that the new course is harder, otherwise you can do three years in sixth form, but not all in the same school

My Ds has just done his first year at a private college, didn't work, and I have no doubt come August he'll be out on his ear

There was a girl in my year who I assume failed her AS levels as she repeated year 12. Still same school (private) but completely different subjects. I bumped into her once after I'd left and she was in Year 13 and she told me she had five offers to do psychology.
Another girl disappeared after year 12, didn't know where she'd gone, I assume to some kind of sixth form college.