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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Charlie Gard 9

999 replies

muckypup73 · 14/07/2017 20:53

Hi guys new thread.

Let's try to keep this one as sensible and measured as the past 7 threads have been.

Please note the MNHQ comment on thread number 7.

"Hi everyone,

..... We had to remove several parent-blaming posts, so we'd like to ask folk not to do this. We think we can all agree that this is a truly awful time for all involved and we just wouldn't wish it on anyone. If there's anything we could do with more of, it's support. We'll continue to remove reported posts that break TGs (if we've missed something, do feel free to let us know).

If we have to make too many deletions, we will need to look at removing the thread; which is the last thing we wish to do.

Thanks all"

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
randomer · 14/07/2017 23:09

Shall we all focus on the children dying every single second because they have no water

badger82 · 14/07/2017 23:09

This thread has saved my sanity while reading and watching this case unfold. Some balanced discussion at last. It's a complex sad case but I've been so shocked and appalled at the idiocy of people in this country.

I have faith in the system and in the law.

Thank goodness we do have excellent medical experts and excellent minds ruling in the courts to try to find the moral and ethical way through the mess.

We just also have an awful lot of incredibly badly educated and moronic beings, behaving terribly and adding to the sadness.

I hope Charlie's case helps other children in future as hopefully there will be some clarity next week and a judgement which will avoid similar cases carrying on so long.

SilverLining17 · 14/07/2017 23:10

Someone on CA has said that the judge has agreed to not pushing for an MRI even if it would be beneficial as it's against the parent's wishes.
A particularly dim member has replied and said 'what we want to hear is a judge to say that it would be beneficial to turn off charlie's ventilator but we won't do it against the parent's wishes.'

Er no. Surely you don't want to hear that it would be beneficial to turn off the ventilator. Isn't that the whole point of you? Other CA people have liked the comment and said 'exactly!'

GabsAlot · 14/07/2017 23:10

@goodbyestranger

this is what i dont get eithr-he said if the skull/brain wasnt growing he would hav serious concerns

how is anyone to prove it if they cant scan him? surly he woul walk away

is connie going to tll him she thinks Gosh are liars?

Sostenueto · 14/07/2017 23:10

They refused before today and also today in court again goodbyestranger and the judge could have pushed for one, but instead he said he would respect parents wishes. (He didn't have to). So this is the bit that made me think well that's your case out the window. Judge is trying to be accommodating and giving parents a lot of liberty but they surely shot themselves in the foot now. Nobody can accuse the judge of not thinking about the parents!

Sostenueto · 14/07/2017 23:13

Scans I'm talking about

CaveMum · 14/07/2017 23:14

Can I point posters asking about the issue of parental rights to this BBC article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40600932

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 14/07/2017 23:14

And further to my earlier post, GOSH have been scrupulous in always acknowledging that Charlie's parents are devoted and loving and that he is lucky to have them. They may be misguided but they are clearly doing what they think is the right thing and they love their boy - of that there is no doubt. Various judgements have also acknowledged that. There is absolutely no obligation due fhe vatious judges to include these statements nor for GOSH to give evidence to that effect - in fact it would be perjury is the contrary were true. The judges' comments are findings if fact and would not be included if credible evidence hadn't been lead to that effect - it is not a sop.

I have said as much in previous threads and I really hope that this is kept in mind as some of the comments re: the parents and their motivations have been awful.

The geveral tenor of the threads is that the courts' findings should be respected - these are some of their findings so there should be the same application

goodbyestranger · 14/07/2017 23:16

Thanks - I didn't get all the tweets. Well it's such a massive flaw I don't see how it can be overcome - can't they see that?

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 14/07/2017 23:18

I think the judge is hoping that the parents' expert will make his position clear to them re: scans. If they don't accept the position, then he can be invited to draw an inference from that and GOSH will also have their own expert evidence to lead, if necessary

MissTify · 14/07/2017 23:18

As a mother to a two year old DD, who after reading about this case, I am so grateful for the fact she is healthy, my daughter at 11 months was crawling, was eating solids with a big appetite, was starting to talk, was expressing her feelings. Little Charlie is doing none of these things. He has been seemingly unconscious on life support for a very long time now and cannot see, hear, move, cry or swallow. I just can't see how this treatment would make much improvement to his condition and that, at best, Charlie would be left severely disabled and trapped in his body in a vegetative state, unable to move, and living a life of hell.

GinSoakedTwitchyPony · 14/07/2017 23:18

Thanks for the link CaveMum

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 14/07/2017 23:19

By "he", I mean the judge

Chestervase1 · 14/07/2017 23:19

Has it been ascertained why GOSH refused the parents wishes to take Charlie to US for treatment. Wasn't he able to travel before the fits.

Writerwannabe83 · 14/07/2017 23:19

I've just been on the CA FB page and can't believe how utterly stupid their opinions and arguments are. It absolutely gives me the rage to read such nonsense.

Anongst their usual "GOSH is lying and the staff are trying to murder Charlie when nobody is looking" crap there was one poster who intervened and REALLY stood up to them and told them how ridiculous they were and what a wonderful hospital GOSH is etc and have they "heard themselves" and she was obviously jumped on and told to get out the group basically.

It's all just utter madness.

Do these people REALLY believe GOSH are part of some conspiracy to kill a baby?? It's absolutely mental. What world do these people live in?

AcrossthePond55 · 14/07/2017 23:21

Gobbolino The US has signed the US Convention on the Rights of Children. The US was actually instrumental in drafting some of its content. But it has not been ratified here. It needs to go to Congress and be approved by a 2/3 majority. As it is, it's a political football that keeps being 'kicked out of bounds' by the religious right and other conservative groups.

And, *Sostenueto, I think it is unfair to state that we Americans, as a people, are 'less ethical' than the people of the UK. Generalizations help no one and hurt many.

Ellie56 · 14/07/2017 23:21

According to the Daily Fail the parents are blocking the scans. The judge said he hoped they would agree and let GOSH know today.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4696722/Charlie-Gard-s-parents-continue-battle-save-life.html

Sostenueto · 14/07/2017 23:22

The reason the parents are refusing MRI scan is because they know deep down Charlie's brain has deteriorated. 17 days with continuous epileptic seizures has surely pointed to catastrophic brain damage. They know the expert won't treat charlie if that us the case. They know if that is the case then Charlie's life chances are zilch and the original court order will be upheld. That is their reluctance to brain scans of any sort.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 14/07/2017 23:24

I stand corrected pond but the point remains that it has not been implemented - so the position remains as set out in my post re: parental rights being supreme

Sostenueto · 14/07/2017 23:24

Connie said she had measured Charlie's head with a tape measure and it has grown 2 cm but Gosh say that is due to water retention, which you can see in his photos which points to liver and kidney failure.

rabbitnothare · 14/07/2017 23:24

Connie is arguing on line tonight with people about the girl in her profile picture on the bike and that Charlie can do the same with treatment.

There is not going to be any agreement going forward.

I have a screenshot but don't feel it's right to post it here. It's on CA.

GinSoakedTwitchyPony · 14/07/2017 23:25

Apologies if this has been posted before, but cavemum's link led me to this BBC News article from 2009. Talks about other cases like Charlie's.
All of this must be terribly upsetting for the parents involved, and to any parent who has gone through similar.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7956450.stm

Sostenueto · 14/07/2017 23:25

Well if Connie posted it.........

goodbyestranger · 14/07/2017 23:26

Yes Sostenueto. The fact of the refusal to consent to scans means they are far from deluded about the reality of Charlie's condition which makes everything far worse.

Ellie56 · 14/07/2017 23:26

Dr Hirano will be well impressed if he travels all this way to see this child and there is no recent test data!