To think that people should respond to a greeting in the language of the country?

[Whitlandcarm]

I work in a place where we get lots of visitors popping in and out, part of my job is to say good morning/good afternoon as they enter.

The language of my workplace is Welsh. Every member of staff is fluent. The place in which I work is a place to learn about Wales.

I say "Bore da" with a smile, and get a "err hi" "morning.", or my fave, nothing.
Often with a face like I've just shit on their shoe. Perhaps sometimes even a hint of disgust.

AIBU unreasonable to expect people to answer me in Welsh? Then speak to me in English if they please afterwards?

Would you go to Spain and answer in English, if a shop keeper etc greeted you? Certainly not.

Even some Welsh seem to do this, but 99% of the time they are English.

Many Australians, Americans, Canadians, other Europeans put effort in and reply "bore da", "prynhawn da" etc.

Here it is on YouTube m.youtube.com/watch?v=MxL9cXrcIJc

Also, in a lovely bit of synchronicity it's on tomorrow on BBC 4.

pringlecat

Really? So you'd visit Wales and give not a shite about the native language nor its people? Good for you

I agree with you, OP. Would the people who come in be frequent visitors or mostly entering for the first time? If the latter, they may just be a bit surprised (despite the context). I speak a few different languages but when I go somewhere else I will often speak the language I speak at home by default without realising until I've done it. Today I flew to London and spoke to the lady in the supermarket in my "home" language through force of habit and didn't even realise until the end of the transaction when I was very embarrassed and quickly switched to blustering English.

"To think that people should respond to a greeting in the language of the country?"

I make a real effort to do this in every country I visit- I think it's common courtesy and people are friendlier if you make a little effort.

From your description all these people are doing just that. 'Hi' is a common greeting in the main language of Wales. Most people in Wales don't speak Welsh, even as a second language (though of course many more in recent years).

By your own measure you are being rude not greeting people in the language of Wales; but this isn't about making people comfortable or being courteous is it?

YANBU to want to promote Welsh. YABU to do it like this.

It's not the same as going to France and not trying to speak French, it just isn't. How many Welsh people, OP included, are not completely fluent in English?

ChiefClerkDrumknott I would expect to be able to communicate in English, given it's the main language of Wales. I actually speak a number of modern and medieval languages and always speak in the main language of the country I'm in, but good for you for assuming I don't give a shite about languages.

Welsh isn't exactly an important and taught language! Seeing as the majority of wales speak English I don't think your tourists are rude for not learning a nearly obsolete language!! I'm Cornish and I don't get angry that people don't greet me in Cornish whilst I'm at work!

harleysmammy If people are going to a place to learn about Wales, they are showing an interest that should be encouraged. I don't think it's a good idea to make them feel uncomfortable and refer back to my suggest of saying hello in Welsh and immediately following it up with asking how are you in English to make clear that the OP is happy to communicate in either language.

If people show an interest in Wales, they may go onto show an interest in learning about Welsh and that interest should be treated as a precious thing rather than stamped on. I think the OP's approach is all wrong.

** earlier suggestion, not suggest

"pringlecat Really? So you'd visit Wales and give not a shite about the native language nor its people? Good for you"

Well, in fairness, I think all pringlecat did was post numbers of people who speak each language and suggest a less aggressive approach. Are 4/5 of Welsh people in the wrong as well? Why does everyone have to agree with the OP?

"I do feel like if they're going to a place to learn about Wales, the least they can do is say boreda, prynhawn da, nos da etc"

Genuinely why? What moral value do you assign to it? The renaissance in Welsh speaking is very new- is it really more 'authentic' to speak Welsh?

I've spent lots of time in Wales and love the history, but have never heard Welsh used in regular conversation. Even in Snowdonia a majority of greetings were in English.

Oh I see, so every other language other than Welsh is important, great. This here is the problem, and the only reason it survives is the aggressive insistence that it does, so don't tell me to be less so. Most of my family don't speak it, but they made the decision that it was important that I do, so some of the 4/5ths of the native country have decided that it should be positively encouraged even if they themselves don't speak it.

I don't see that learning basic Welsh greetings is any different to learning basic greetings in other languages

I've spent lots of time in Wales and love the history, but have never heard Welsh used in regular conversation. Even in Snowdonia a majority of greetings were in English.

I find this astonishing, especially north Wales. I travel to Cardiff for work weekly and often hear it spoken. Even more so when I went to university in Swansea

I'm from Liverpool and live in Wales. I don't speak the language although my kids know some. Just smile and say Hello, everyone will know what you're on about.

"I find this astonishing, especially north Wales. I travel to Cardiff for work weekly and often hear it spoken. Even more so when I went to university in Swansea"

Well its years since I've been regularly; I have family who can hold a conversation in Welsh, but I can't remember it ever being used by anyone other than to show off some Welsh language.

ChiefClerkDrumknott You do realise I didn't decide that the main language of Wales is English, right? The people who live there and decided to all speak English did!

"Oh I see, so every other language other than Welsh is important, great. This here is the problem, and the only reason it survives is the aggressive insistence that it does, so don't tell me to be less so."

Lots of languages are not important. I sometimes greet people in Sindarin just to be awkward, but I'm under no illusion I'm being otherwise. Perhaps Welsh will be more important one day.

I think it's fair enough to suggest a less aggressive approach.

We lived in Bangor for a time and nobody ever said 'bore da' to any of us. I wouldn't have known what they had meant, never having heard of the term, and not expecting somebody to address me in Welsh.

If you greeted in Spanish, French, Italian, German etc etc then I would understand and reply likewise.

Yabu I'm afraid

I think Welsh is important to the Welsh people who speak it.
I have spent a lot of time in the English speaking North but venture further especially when I was growing up and some Welsh people just weren't very nice.
I have met some lovely friendly Welsh people from all over the country, but it is sad that a minority put people off being nice and learning the language.
So many people comment that some Welsh people will speak in English until they hear someone speaking English and then speak in Welsh, I've experienced it myself it's very rude.
I love Wales and am spending lots of time there over the next few weeks, I have friends there and my ancestors are Welsh, so lots of Welsh blood here.
You are lovely friendly hospitable and warm, in general.

OP - perhaps you could help educate us, and at least tell us how to pronounce "bore da" and what we should respond with?

OP Do you work in a Museum?

"ChiefClerkDrumknott You do realise I didn't decide that the main language of Wales is English, right?"

Come on Pringlecat, admit that you are Edward I.

I love the irony of the people saying "Well English is the main language of Wales, you're being rude for not speaking the main language of the country".

English is the "main language" of Wales because the English were so bloody threatened by people being able to speak another language that they used ritual humiliation and punishment to stop children from speaking their own language.

Welsh isn't exactly an important and taught language! Seeing as the majority of wales speak English I don't think your tourists are rude for not learning a nearly obsolete language!!

Wow

Welsh is a taught language, actually, and it's on the rise. It's considered important enough for the government to be proposing plans to double the number of Welsh speakers by 2050.

It's also important enough that being fluent in Welsh has been one of the deciding factors in me being hired for all of the jobs I've had.

pringlecat Would you like to discuss the historical reasons why English is predominant language in Wales?

don Yeah, ok, laugh at the decline of the native language, why so defensive? I didn't mention Edward I, so wtf are you bringing that up? Super defensive, aren't you it seems like you couldn't give a shite about the Welsh language so what's your point? And you wonder why the native speakers get aggressive towards patronising bullshit.

Olenna Bore da is pronounced boar-re daa, it means good morning

I'd say if you work in some kind of tourist related job the onus is on you to make people feel welcome and comfortable in your country not embarrass them and make them feel awkward off the bat by judging them for not knowing/attempting to use your language, especially when you are perfectly able to conduct your interactions in their language.
I say this as someone who is fluent in 2 other languages and with enough knowledge of a few others to be able to say hello, please and thank you, also living in an area with such a sizeable community of speakers of another language to the point we have bilingual street signs.