Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Cognitive dissonance.

41 replies

EssieTregowan · 10/07/2017 08:01

How much do you employ in your everyday life?

Off the top of my head, I eat meat and dairy even though I know how cruel the industry is.

I buy the kids' clothes from Primark and H&M despite all the sweatshop issues.

I smoke. HUGE amount of CD at work there.

I buy Nestle. I didn't for years but with three fussy kids it's hard not to.

I stay up late and then wonder why I'm tired in the morning...

There's probably more. I'd love to live more authentically (that makes me sound like a hipster ) but I don't know if anyone can.

How much do you do in life that you have to do mental somersaults to justify, even if it's subconsciously?

Or am I just lazy and most people live by their beliefs?

OP posts:

Meatbadger · 10/07/2017 08:09

I work in central government even though I despise our current administration. I often look around at colleagues and wonder how they all do it!

EllaHen · 10/07/2017 08:11

I was just thinking yesterday that if I was rich I would employ someone to feed me only vegan food. You know, do all the thinking, researching and conduring up of delicious meals.

EllaHen · 10/07/2017 08:13

Oh, and watch Okja on Netflix. It cuts right through cognitive dissonance.

Str4ngedaysindeed · 10/07/2017 08:20

Although I have been vegan since the new year, I cannot bring myself to look at any films about the industry as just cant bear it; smoke 5 or 6 cigarettes a day; bought our council house, despite being a lifelong labour supporter; nestle - yes..blimey there must be loads! Bugger

ChasedByBees · 10/07/2017 08:39

I would be vegan if I stuck to my principles. I don't though.

Camomila · 10/07/2017 09:32

I try to live by my beliefs but it's hard, especially as it tends to wok out more expensive.

I don't buy nestle but that's easy for me as DS is too young to have opinions plus eats anything (he's only 15 months)

I buy free range eggs and organic yoghurts for DS but I can't afford to buy organic meat, so I try to only eat meat once or twice a week.

I like upcycling clothes and furniture and going to carboot sales but I do also shop at primary and H&M

My big cognitive dissonance is that I'm Catholic and a feminist. I justify it to myself that Jesus would have been a feminist and it's the church that has made up the unfeminist 'rules'. And I've never once put in money in a collection for 'life'.

Changedtocovermyass · 10/07/2017 09:36

I don't give a stuff about the parenting approach of other people. Yet here I am on MN.
But why use this phrase other than to sound like a dick anyway?

Orlantina · 10/07/2017 09:37

Isn't cognitive dissonance where you are unaware of the contrast between 2 views you hold?

People on here are aware of them.

If you aren't aware of the contrast, that's got to be far worse?

Kintan · 10/07/2017 09:43

What's the difference between cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy though?

Camomila · 10/07/2017 09:48

I think maybe cognitive dissonance is a bit of a protective measure as well....like if we stopped to properly think about global warming/Syria/children starving in Yemen/food banks...we'd all go into a state of permanent panic/depression?

So people pick one or two things they can manage to be ethical about e.g. They recycle but still eat meat, or they go veggie but shop at primark otherwise it's just be too much?

The80sweregreat · 10/07/2017 09:57

Rather cognitive dissonance than someone who is a hypocrite.

hackmum · 10/07/2017 10:04

It's very hard to live entirely by your principles, because it would mean retiring from modern life. It's almost impossible to buy only products that don't involve animal exploitation. If you use Apple products at all, then you're probably complicit in the exploitation of works at their Foxconn factories in China. A huge number of products come from Nestle, which ideally I'd prefer to boycott. And so on and so on - you just have to do the best you can, I think. Or not have any principles...

Kintan · 10/07/2017 10:05

But isn't calling something cognitive dissonance a way to justify hypocrisy. Sorry to single you out but the pp who said 'bought our council house despite being a lifelong labour supporter' - how is that cognitive dissonance vs hypocrisy? I'm genuinely interested in the difference.

hackmum · 10/07/2017 10:06

Orlantina: "Isn't cognitive dissonance where you are unaware of the contrast between 2 views you hold?"

Exactly. A good example would be people who get very upset about people hurting animals but are happy to eat meat.

Kintan · 10/07/2017 10:06

Sorry I should have said sometimes calling something cognitive dissonance is a way to justify hypocrisy!

Katinkka · 10/07/2017 10:08

Cognitive dissonance is where you change your beliefs to justify your behaviour ....

claritytobeclear · 10/07/2017 10:14

I think holding cognitive dissonance, and living with being unsettled, is absolutely necessary in order to disentangle the genuine complexity of real life issues and conflicting priorities. Context can change everything, in terms of our priorities. It is good to recognise this in ourselves. It allows for compassion and empathy towards others who feel conflicted.

AliciaMayEmory · 10/07/2017 10:16

Cognitive dissonance is not the same as hypocrisy. The dissonance is the inconsistency between feelings and behaviours. You have to change one of them to get rid of the dissonance. So you have to change your behaviour or your attitude towards something. So if you are against sweatshops/child labour but you want to buy cheap clothes at primark you get dissonance. To eliminate the dissonance you need to either shop elsewhere or decide that the sweatshops aren't a problem/don't bother you/put it to the back of your mind.

I think we all do this to some extent. I know that I shop cheaply at the minute because I have no choice. I suppose telling myself that I have no choice relieves the dissonance as I can tell myself that if I had enough money to chose then I'd chose the more ethical stores.

Singingtherapy · 10/07/2017 10:20

As katinkha said, cg is when you change your beliefs to justify your behaviour. Eating meat despite knowing it's unethical isn't an example of Cg. Cg would be turning a blind eye to any info about animal suffering and actively seeking out arguments that animals didn't really suffer. The examples in the op just describe awareness of shortcomings. Cg is much more complex than that.

PickingOakum · 10/07/2017 10:22

bought our council house despite being a lifelong labour supporter

I get really marked about the misinformation surrounding this subject.

Right to Buy was originally a Labour policy. The scheme was only promoted and expanded by the Thatcher government, not invented by them.

So there's no CD or hypocrisy here at all. Don't let those wealthy, metro, left-lib commentators, who don't know their Labour party policy history, make you feel shitty about buying your council house. You could have done exactly the same under Harold Wilson back in the 70s and the Labour Party would have supported your decision to do so since it was their policy in the first place.

VestalVirgin · 10/07/2017 10:29

I manage to consume only dairy from cows that were kept under okay conditions ... and choose to forget about the fact that they still have their calves taken away because that's what you have to do with dairy cows.

And I stay up late.

What's the difference between cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy though?

Hypocrisy is when you don't admit it and accuse other people of things you do yourself.

Doing things you know aren't ethically okay while acknowledging that you are not perfect and have no right to accuse others doesn't quite meet the criteria of hypocrisy to me.

e1y1 · 10/07/2017 10:37

Yeah, although I am NOT a vegetarian, I try to avoid meat wherever possible, (as in will normally always choose a non meat meal first). Especially pork for some reason - I will do everything to avoid that.

I went "instant" vegetarian a while back and just dropped meat, I lost a ton of weight (too much), so I couldn't become a complete veggie. Although I know how horrific the industry is. :(

claritytobeclear · 10/07/2017 10:42

Singing, katinkha, as far as I am aware, holding cognitive dissonance does not necessarily means you change your beliefs because of your own conflicting views (cognitive dissonance), although it can lead to this, in an attempt to gain a more 'cohesive' outlook.

This is the theory I am working from,

www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html

hackmum · 10/07/2017 10:48

PickingOakum: "Don't let those wealthy, metro, left-lib commentators, who don't know their Labour party policy history, make you feel shitty about buying your council house."

What's the point, really, of inflammatory comments like this? Who are these wealthy, metro, left-lib commentators who go round making people feel "shitty" about buying their council house?

Personally I think the policy of letting tenants on a large scale buy their council was wrong. I equally don't blame people for taking advantage of it. Why wouldn't you?

Thatcher's policy of allowing tenants to buy their council house was probably what got her elected in 1979. The reason it was a bad policy was not because letting people buy their house was in principle wrong, but the houses were sold at a huge discount, depriving local authorities of valuable income, and on top of that local authorities weren't allowed to use the money to build new council houses. It was a policy that led directly to an increase in homelessness.

The blame lies squarely with the Thatcherite government. I wouldn't blame tenants themselves at all for taking advantage of what was essentially free money handed to them on a plate.

TheDevilMadeMeDoIt · 10/07/2017 11:05

Eating meat despite knowing it's unethical isn't an example of Cg.

It is exactly CG. You hold a belief but behave in a way that is contrary to that belief - hence you are in a state of internal conflict. This is uncomfortable so you find ways to reduce the dissonance. The OP said that she eats meat and dairy despite knowing that it's unethical.

So yes, she may ignore information about cruelty and seek out articles which say it's not as bad as it's painted. An alternative strategy is to find a third belief which bridges the gap between the behaviour and beliefs - that children need meat in their diets, that dairy builds strong bones. Smokers' may bridge the gap by telling themselves that not everyone who smokes dies of lung cancer, or that they don't have to worry about it because they're going to give up on Monday (and the Monday after that, and the one after that.....).

There are many ways to reduce or eliminate CG - changing your behaviour to match your beliefs; claiming that external forces are at work (I was forced to do it); ignoring information which supports your belief - but finding another belief that bridges the gap is by far the most common solution.

Flip

1 2