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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About abusive men and contact

24 replies

wildseabirds · 09/07/2017 16:47

AIBU to feel that if a man is abusive he should not get to see his children unsupervised?

Yet this does happen doesn't it?

OP posts:
HoneyIshrunktheBiscuit · 09/07/2017 16:56

I don't think contact will ever be that black or white an issue TBH.

Getoutofthatgarden · 09/07/2017 16:59

Yes but some abusive men are good at fooling the courts. There's been some shocking threads on here from women in this position and it defies belief that their exs managed to get unsupervised contact from the courts, making some of the women jump through hoops to accommodate the contact.

Getoutofthatgarden · 09/07/2017 16:59

Sorry YANBU ^

wildseabirds · 09/07/2017 17:04

That is what I'm very worried about indeed garden

OP posts:
Pengggwn · 09/07/2017 17:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sunnymorningwithbacon · 09/07/2017 17:07

Yanbu

But it also depends on what you define as abuse.

Getoutofthatgarden · 09/07/2017 17:08

Do you think your ex will go as far as taking it to court or is it already in the process? On the other hand you get men who can't be arsed, my ex for example.

wildseabirds · 09/07/2017 17:08

I know what you mean pen but someone with a history of abusive behaviour can't be said to be risk free surely. Or can they?

sunny not really Hmm

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wildseabirds · 09/07/2017 17:09

I imagine he would take it to court m or his family would.

OP posts:
Lelloteddy · 09/07/2017 17:09

Of course it happens. Abusive men are incredibly manipulative and even when children have been physically harmed ( and they have been convicted) they can still get unsupervised contact.

If this is a situation you are facing please contact Women's Aid.

wildseabirds · 09/07/2017 17:11

I have. But they can't work miracles.

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Pengggwn · 09/07/2017 17:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sunnymorningwithbacon · 09/07/2017 17:12

Well yes. It does. Don't do a hmm face.

My ex told his solicitor I was abusive. If you take his word for it without any kind of external standard I am and therefore should not have contact with my children.

Starlight2345 · 09/07/2017 17:14

The issue is far more complicated..In the sense many women who have been in abusive relationships do not report it. So can have no actual evidence. ...

There are also the revenge ex's who are deliberately stopping access.

There are the abusive ex's who turn it on the victims.

To be honest contact is a mess. when there has been an abusive relationship.

wildseabirds · 09/07/2017 17:14

Yes but sunny how about just taking my word on here and not derailing the thread.

pen for obvious reasons I don't want to go into ththe finer details. It isn't very pleasant.

OP posts:
Pengggwn · 09/07/2017 17:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyNewKitchen · 09/07/2017 17:15

I am in this exact same situation! Watching with interest! ( although my ex hit me in front of my child so hoping the courts take this into account!)

Sunnymorningwithbacon · 09/07/2017 17:16

How about you don't jump down my throat for saying something sensible?

the court will always look at it on a case by case basis. Theres no use in a sweeping statement of "abusive" that won't help you in court. Nor should it otherwise accusations could be made that have no basis in fact - as my ex did with me.

wildseabirds · 09/07/2017 17:19

I'm not jumping down your throats but I said he was abusive and you inferred that you did not always believe this to be true.

OP posts:
Sunnymorningwithbacon · 09/07/2017 17:21

I stated for a fact that not all claims of abuse are true.

That's what happened to me

I did say you were not being unreasonable but it depended on the definition of abuse and it does, and it will depend on each individual case.

All I can suggest is that you seek legal advice from a solicitor and I hope it goes well for you.

HoneyIshrunktheBiscuit · 09/07/2017 17:45

I don't think a victim of domestic abuse should have to facilitate that contact- especially if the abuse was physical.

However I do think this is a really complicated issue. I work for SS and have seen children removed from mum because of severe neglect and be placed with dad. Dad and mum had DV in the relationship though dad has always denied. Kids are now thriving with dad.

Abuse is horrendous and I think every woman should receive unlimited support to get out of those relationships. But abuse towards a partner does not always equate to abuse against a child. Case by case basis needs to be how our law handles this.

Charlottann · 09/07/2017 17:48

Yes it certainly does happen. The courts are currently extremely keen to support father's applications for contact even if the mother reports abuse to her by the father, it is often minimised and contact increases are promoted between fathers and DC.

Queenofthestress · 09/07/2017 17:59

Currently I'm in the situation of the father being verbally abusive, has screamed and swore at the kids and can't physically cope with looking after them, yet if he goes to court to go on the BC then I was advised to stop contact until he's took me to court because not only did he try to attack my ex with a hammer whilst my eldest was in the house, his mum got him out of going to jail by proving he isn't capable of controlling his actions, as well as the alcoholism & drug use
Yet I'm still expected to facilitate him seeing them until he's on the BC
WTF

HurtleTheTurtle · 09/07/2017 18:00

It's a really complex issue; ultimately it is a complex issue between two adults, and doesn't necessarily mean that the abusive parent is going to be abusive to their children. On one hand I question why should children lose out on a relationship with a parent who is never going to cause any direct harm to them? On the other hand, I wonder if we need to do more to protect children from being involved with people who display abusive behaviours towards others, not only to protect the children, but also to ensure abusive generational cycles are broken.

Abuse occurs within a spectrum; what you see as abuse may not be what someone else sees as abuse. What you see as abuse, may also not be what the courts view as abuse. I am not saying this to minimise any type of abuse, it is just a very difficult matter to deal with. Should a parent have no contact with their children if they haven't been found guilty by a court? What happens when someone makes a false allegation of abuse i.e. why should that also impact the children?

Different cultures and different religions have different expectations and standards; in some cases outsiders view these customs as abusive, or oppressive, yet to the people who hold these values, these are inherited cultural values - who decides then what is the line of abuse that needs to be crossed to stop children having access to a parent?

There are cases where men are not allowed to have further contact with their child(ren), so yes, it does happen that in some cases all contact is stopped as a way to safeguard the child. However, if there is no safeguarding issue between the parent and the children, then I am not really sure stopping all contact is actually the most appropriate course of action for the development of that child. Relationships that are severed in childhood are often impossible to reinstate when the child is over the age of 18 (i.e. when it would be the child's choice). If there is no risk to the child, why should contact be severed and the child suffer the huge, and very detrimental, loss of "losing" a parent. This is not a decision that should be taken lightly; attachment, and specifically broken attachment patterns, can lead to disastrous consequences for a child. Research has demonstrated that these consequences can, and often do, last throughout a chid's adult lifetime.

It is my belief children should not be punished for the actions of a parent, so, unless there is a risk of harm to the child, contact with parents who have been accused of abuse should always be maintained.

If there is any risk to the child, or abuse directed towards the child, contact should be stopped.

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