To think that ending the tax credits and benefits freeze should be a much higher priority than public sector pay rises?

[MargaretTwatyer]

Benefits including in work tax credits are completely frozen for another four years. Not a 1% a year rise, frozen. This means the very poorest in society are being the worst hit by high inflation.

I can't really understand why higher rises for the public sector are currently being given a high profile while nobody seems to be paying much attention to this. A rise in benefits would help the poorest workers in both public and private sectors. It would target those in need most whereas public sector rises would also mean a lot of people who are already very comfortably off would get richer while the very poorest private sector workers would get no extra help at all.

AIBU to wonder why no fuss is being made over this to the same extent? Or is it just because the word 'benefits' means it isn't a vote winner? Or nobody cares about the poor in the private sector because they don't have unions to shout for them?

The problem is that it is getting hard to recruit and retain people in some jobs, because wages have not kept pace

Increasing benefits can reduce incentive to work, whereas hose who are working are seeing their real income falling, which disincentives them

There has been a cap on benefits since 2012, it has been reduced further since.

Again, you too are also aware that people IN WORK claim some benefits aren't you? How does that reduce incentive exactly?

SingaSong12

It's a little bit more complicated than that. Worth checking because the rules might have changed and i could be wrong, but a while ago it was for new claims after that date.

So if you aren't currently a claimant but after that date you claim then there is a 2 child limit - this even counts for people claiming for 3, exiting the benefits system and then re-entering. Even if all children were born before 2017.

AwaywiththePixies27

Because you are often much better off working 16 hours than working full time. Especially when childcare costs are taken into account.

It's not either or

A lot of public sector workers receive in work benefits to top up their wages.

If wages increased those who worked would needl less benefits

Again, you too are also aware that people IN WORK claim some benefits aren't you? How does that reduce incentive exactly?

Because single people only have to do a token 16 hours and a couple just 24 between them so most work part time or just choose one of them to work knowing others will pick up the tab.

Yes a public sector pay rise may benefit higher earners too but why shouldn't it. Without people paying tax and not claiming benefits we would have no money in the pot. Hard work should come with rewards, not giving more to the workshy who do very little for maximum gain from the state.

Freeze benifets when you can control rent and food prices because these days every the only certian things are that you will die , pay tax and have a bloody rent increase

Well sure bit then you'll also agree that the NHS workers supporting your disabled children deserve a pay rise? Before they all leave!

Absolutely!
Then maybe my disabled children will actually get some support from NHS workers

maybe next genral election people will hopefully stop voting in people who are idoically against state help and all about kicking poor people aka mini America

rainbows please provide the stats and their source for your claim. So I'll need both the figures showing most people in receipt of working tc only work pt, and the research showing they have actively chose to do so because others will pick up the tab.

Ps valid research does not include the daily mail or a channel 5 documentary.

Gordon Brown designed it so anyone (single or couple) with 2 children got the same working 16 hours as a couple both working full time making £37k between them.

It pretty much made working hard or more worthless for most of the population. It also made it worthless investing in productivity for many companies. No need when tax credits pay the staff. Thats a big part to why our productivity isnt growing.
Tax credits are also the benefit that sucked in migrant labour.
Fine when you qualify, an absolute route to poverty once the children leave home. Tax credits are the biggest failure in welfare since Beveridge.

I'm quite aware how working tax credits works thankyou Rainbows.

You stated that people who claim benefits do nothing. I'm just pointing out how woefully wrong and factually incorrect it is. Unsuprisingly

Without people paying tax and not claiming benefits we would have no money in the pot.

Nonsense. Literally thousands of pounds in benefits goes UNCLAIMED a year.
We have no money in the pot now, because we have a government in charge of finances that are about as useful with deficits and spreadsheets as I am with a scalpel.

Not to mention the £1b they've just bunged the DUPs way to keep them in power.

Tax credits are also the benefit that sucked in migrant labour.

Doesn't that depend what type of migrant labour. A non EU national has no access to public recourse. An EU national however, would.

I think it was more the lure of Employers who realised they could pay people a lot less abs they'd still be grateful, as opposed to someone thinking they'll definitely get tax credits.

i am so looking forward to retiring. then i wont have to do 80+ hours as a couple and subsidise couples who only want to to 16 hours or 34 or whatever it is. this would only get worse if corbyn got in. i'm so tiered of working so hard and watching others coasting and moaning and asking for more

I wish I knew where this myth that you are better off working 16 hours if you get tax credits comes from.

It certainly wasn't the case for me.

I did you to find it a little insane that the only benefit that used to be capped to 2 children was the child care part. But that has been balanced out now.

We need to force employers to pay proper wages, and that includes the public services.

The local authority I work for is at the point of going bust due to chronic underfunding from central government and poor management of finances over many years and across many different personnel changes.

I suspect a pay increase would just take more out of an already stretched budget locally.

We are having to cut virtually every service that we don't legally have to provide just so we can fund social care. Thousands have taken voluntary redundancy/ not been replaced over the last few years.

So to those people who try and hide money so your inheritance is protected from care home fees - you are indirectly partially responsible for your local librarys and children's centres having to close.

The minimum wage should be set at a level where a couple both working full time with 2 children can work full time, pay average childcare and rent costs, and not need tax credits. That would sort both

Rhyadar
You're right it is more complicated. ATM all children born before 6 April 2017 will get tax credits elements even on a new claim. There are also more exceptions to the rule that no element will be paid for a third child then I mentioned e.g. adopted children.

www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Exemptions_to_2_child_limit

It has messed up the roll out of universal credit- some families in "full service" areas that everyone was supposed to claim universal credit have to claim tax credits (but there are exceptions to that as well for re-claims!)

Don't worry if you are on UC already with three plus older children getting elements for all of them - no need to change anything and you will be paid.

Entitled to have a pretty good summary

www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Exemptions_to_2_child_limit

Fruit cider...according to a recent study that amount is 40k a year or £10.30 an hour.
It must be possible to pay people this.

I work with a lot of immigrants often African origin who get granted asylum in another EU country first then are able to settle in the EU. I have met families recently with 8 or 9 kids. I suspect this isxwhy the tax credit rules have changed. These large families are getting hundreds a month in ctc and cb as well as housing benefit. The chances of having a disabled child amongst 8 kids is high so usually exempt from the benefit cap. They have one parent working a low income job.

Fruit cider...according to a recent study that amount is 40k a year or £10.30 an hour.
It must be possible to pay people this.

Exactly. If tax credits stopped subsidising businesses then tax credits wouldn't be needed anymore. Private businesses should pay fair wages, freeing up public money to pay for public sector services!

AlmostAJillSandwich Sat 08-Jul-17 19:20:40

How is anyone,supposed to survive on less than 6,000 a year? ... it's deliberately made so low it's unlivable to force people to look for and get in to work.

Er, anyone on benefits has a duty to 'look for and get into work' if they are able - it's not a choice!

Babs why leave out the rest of the post? 6k is the approximate figure for ESA. You do know what ESA is for, don't you?