AIBU to think healthcare system in US is terrible?

[brasty]

"A few months ago I had a well loved coworker pass away unexpectedly. The day before it happened, she didn't look well, and despite recommendations from many of us to go to the hospital (she had known health problems that were serious but not deadly if properly treated) she insisted she was fine and refused, partly because she didn't want to incur the hospital bills. She would likely still be alive today and for many years (she wasn't old) if she had gone to the hospital. It was unexpected and shocking to everyone. She was vibrant and caring and sassy, and everyone loved her. She has a family. This is the problem with health care in this country. No one should die because of fear of hospital bills."

I just read this about someone in the US. And it is shocking that people can die from easily preventable things, in a rich country. I know in a similar situation, my mum would not have called an ambulance for her suspected heart attack. Women having heart attacks often have much more mild symptoms, and she thought I was making a fuss anyway calling an ambulance. If she had had to pay, she would simply have refused to go, and maybe died.

Also- water is wet

The health system in the US is terrible if you are poor, have limited coverage and / or have had a serious illness that excludes coverage for future problems.

If you have a good policy and enough money to be able to afford co-payments it is fantastic - genuine choice about treatments and doctors; drugs that work; and (usually) modern facilities.

My experience of the US healthcare system has been much better than the NHS,

The scenario you gave happens frequently in the UK, because the NHS doesn't want to pay to treat you

Have you actually been to the US? Or just read one inflammatory paragraph? I live in the US, healthcare here is excellent if you can afford it or have good insurance. The system isn't fair, by any means, but nor is it in the UK where the rich top up with private care.

YABU for starting such a ridiculous thread based on very little at all. Educate yourself and then maybe come back for a proper debate. Here are a few (real) issues for you to ponder: the current changes Trump wants. How do you feel about those? What could be done to change the situation? What would you suggest as an alternative?

The system isn't fair, by any means, but nor is it in the UK where the rich top up with private care.

I think there is a bit of a difference between the rich topping up in the UK and the poor in the US having no access to health care without incurring huge medical bills. To say one of those "unfairnesses" is the same as the other is a huge leap.

I live in the us and am lucky enough to have pretty good employer coverage for my healthcare. I can get access to good specialists pretty much whenever I need them, they work good hours (outside normal working hours, weekends etc) making my life easier and I get drugs to treat a long standing condition here that I suspect would be difficult to get back home. The system here is crap and I miss the NHS. I still pay out over $400 per month towards my healthcare and over $100 per month towards my medication. Twice I went to hospital as an emergency and I waited 3 hours both times. I had the same issue in the UK the same weekend as the NHS was hacked and I was in and out within 45 minutes. 1 friend was bankrupted due to an operation on her back (and she had health insurance) plus if Obamacare ends, 10 members of my family including 6 kids will either lose their healthcare or have to pay upwards of $6000 per year for basic treatment.

I live in the US healthcare here is excellent if you can afford it or have good insurance

What about those who can't afford it or can't get insurance due to certain conditions? I think to says its unfair is a massive understatement for one of the richest countries in the world.

The scenario you gave happens frequently in the UK, because the NHS doesn't want to pay to treat you

Bollocks. It can't happen as treatment decisions are made by clinicians who have no input into budget.

In the us you are asked for your insurance papers before they even triage you.

Brits think that the US system is unfair because of the huge disparity between haves (those with good coverage and money) and have-nots (those without). Americans think that the NHS is unfair because it costs a lot of money to pay for services that they and their families will never need to use.

Broad generalisations, of course, but the two systems are so so different it's almost pointless comparing them, especially as they reflect wider societal attitudes to supporting the vulnerable. Both have excellent features but aspects that are terrible.

I agree OlennasWimple I think that's an accurate summary. Neither is the perfect system and the NHS is in trouble as we all know.

However I am so grateful for our NHS, knowing that any one of us will receive life saving treatment and not have to sell our house to pay for it. I am happy for my National Insurance contributions to pay for everyoneto get adequate healthcare, if that's old fashioned or simplistic oh well!

I watched a documentary a few years ago. Really sad. Some little old ladies were cutting their medication in half because they couldn't afford it and others were going without heating and proper food so they could afford medication. One said she decided on a month by month basis if she should pay for her medication or her utilities.
It shouldn't be that way in such a rich country.
I used to know one American girl who really needed treatment for something but just never got it as she couldn't afford it- don't know what happened in the end. We weren't that close.

US Medicaid (the one for poor people)
paid for a kidney transplant for a relative
but will not pay for the right anti rejection drugs
so the person is back in dialysis waiting to die
THAT was a waste of money.
THe right drugs would have allowed them to return to work and pay taxes

but the US cannot get its head around delinking healthcare and employment THAT is the awful part of the US system

if you lose your job through illness you also lose your medical insurance to pay for treatment for the illness

1 in 4 bankruptcies in the US is healthcare cost related
nil in the UK

My brother ( lives in USA) is diabetic and had to choose his job very carefully to make sure he got good medical insurance that would cover him. It was one of his main priorities when he was job hunting.

My daughter had 9 operations in her first 10 years, without the NHS we would have been fucked.

I truly love the NHS they have done amazing things for my daughter, I am so so glad our girl was born in the UK.

Agreed, Talkin - I know many people who would move jobs in a heartbeat if they weren't tied to their employer by the health care package. And I often wonder if the Tories who advocate moving towards the US system have any idea of the burden that it places on the shoulders of employers to provide a scheme, pay into a scheme and administer a scheme.

Neither system is perfect.

Here in UK my DD dislocated her kneecap and damaged her ankle. The emergency care and response was magnificent. She was written up for URGENT physiotherapy as her treatment plan (could make a big difference in her walking and mobility long term).

We paid for a private physio as the Urgent physio was going to take 4 weeks to come through. So as in the US, if you have money , you get CONTINUED great service after emergency treatment.

Kursk and Sprinkle. Educate us. Send us links. Is Talkin right you can lose your health insurance if you lose your job? I'm off to read about Obamacare and what the current regime wants to do but shortcuts are always great. BTW also looking at French, German and Scandinavian systems which seem to be a mixture of government/insurance but not private health care as it's known in the US.

Yup, have had good care in the US and good care here, both systems are v different. I know loads of people who won't see their gp 'because the nhs is so stretched'.

I live in fear of the day when they take me off my meds because they're too expensive (nhs have allowed a single manufacturer to have a monopoly on this drug and overcharge accordingly) whereas in the US I could get three months of meds for about $100.

There is an inbuilt nhs-like aspect of US healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid) which is also not perfect. Often those who really suffer are not the very poor but those who make too much money to qualify for special programmes so have to self-fund.

There's no point pretending the US has a two-tier system and the UK doesn't. Those who can afford private health care - in the US or the UK - always will get better, faster, more comfortable care.

Imo both systems are broken.

NHS is only 'in trouble' because we're asking it to do more with less. If expenditure was the same %gdp as the European average it wouldnt be. We just have governments that are trying to spin it as being unaffordable.

User149
There are no private A&E departments in the UK
You will never be asked to get your credit card out after an emergency admission in the UK
standard in the USA

Private hospitals in the UK will not admit anybody with MRSA - they leave that to the NHS no matter how much you pay

PS. My mum was a schoolteacher in the US and enjoys an excellent health insurance package in retirement, so you don't have to be a CEO to afford it, it's more that over time it became unsustainable (thanks to grabby insurance companies and complicit hospitals etc) and has been scaled back. Imo the only reason it's now in the headlines is because middle class folk are affected, not just poor people.

Most of my colleagues are US based and yes their system isn't perfect but nor is the NHS. My main issue is that sometimes getting a specialist (even if you're willing to pay) isn't that easy. I almost died of c section complications (no joke!) And I had basically no follow up and got kicked out of the hospital as they needed the bed. The first six months of my daughter I had terrible health thanks to this, I don't remember much of her first month :(. I went to Mexico and went private, everything got sorted in a few days and never had to suffer again of high fevers and a paranoia of getting another uterine infection that could lead to sepsis.

I would be in trouble if I lived in the US. I have a spinal injury similar to Christopher Reeves - he ran out of money and Robin Williams was paying his bills before he died. I wouldn't be able to afford the pain killers / physio/ or that I need, it would be thousands a month. The US system is great if you can afford it but not not if you have a life limiting condition - no insurance .

1.7 million Americans live in households that will declare bankruptcy due to medical bills
www.nerdwallet.com/blog/health/managing-medical-bills/nerdwallet-health-study-estimates-56-million-americans-65-struggle-medical-bills-2013-2/

Here is a CDC link (about as reliable as you can get on US healthcare) ...
www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/probs_paying_medical_bills_jan_2011_jun_2015.pdf

TalkinPeece yes. And? I'm not sure what your point is. That no one will suffer personal bankruptcy to get health care here in the UK? Yes, I think we can agree that that is good. My mum won't either, because she has excellent health coverage in the US.

Not taking anything away from those who suffer, it's brutal. But there's no point in pretending the nhs is without blemish. A thread written here on MN is just one example, the lady was advised by her nhs doctor to go private because she's being asked to wait too long for her cancer op. My staunch socialist PIL have gone private for the same reason. They will not go bankrupt, but they will become increasingly unwell waiting for treatment.

IMO it's a mixed bag - good and bad - in both places. If I gave you the impression I feel any other way it was unintended.