To ask if social housing tenancies are permanent?

[pudding24]

I've always rented privately so it's with genuine curiosity to learn that I ask this. I've read how some of the Grenfell fire survivors have been offered temporary tenancies and have refused because they want something permanent.

Is a permanent tenancy a fairly normal expectation in social housing? I've always rented on the understanding that my landlord can decide to sell up/end the tenancy at any time... I kind of thought a tenancy was temporary by nature!

Of course the fire survivors have been through a horrendous housing-related trauma, so there are sensitivities there and my question isn't really about them. But the article just made me curious to know if social housing tenancies are essentially guaranteed forever?

I don't know if it's the same for all councils but my social housing is indeed forever, if they have to destroy my house they have to rehouse me in a similar one and they can only end my tenancy if I don't pay the rent, sublet, or display a great deal of anti-social behaviour (even then, they're more likely to move me to a different street).

It's so permanent in fact that I can actually will my tenancy to a dependant providing they would otherwise meet the criteria for social housing and are living with me at the time of my death.

I have no direct experience, but I believe social (especially council) tenancies used to be for life, but recently (maybe only in some areas) there has been a switch to shorter periods. Though I think shorter periods still means several years, which is much better than private renting.

I think it is government policy that council housing tenancies should be for limited periods and at market rents, which are both breaks with the past.

Some are and so they should be.

I assume that for shorter tenancies, you will only be able to renew if you still qualify?

Mine is an assured tenancy.
Rare in the private sector.

Mine is permanent.

I am very very lucky I know. My housing association is fabulous. Repairs are done promptly and my house is only 5 years own and an eco house so very cheap to run.

We couldn't get a mortgage even with a deposit as dp is self employed and had serious health issues. It's our security and I know how fortunate we are.

When we lived in a HA house we had an assured tenancy why is quite similar if I'm not mistaken.

It is at the moment, they can only evict you for certain reasons set out in the law, unless your LA has elected to use fixed term tenancies which will end after 2 - 10 years. But the government has changed the law so soon councils will only be allowed to give fixed term tenancies to all new tenants - and then decide at the end if they will give you another tenancy or not.

I imagine the residents from grenfell are on Assured Short Hold tenancies. Which will mean for them that unless they break the clauses in the tenancy they have it for life, they can transfer to other properties and keep the same terms. There is no real risk of the landlord selling up, if you cant make the rent they will do everything they can to help you out, including clearing your shortfall by £5 a week. They're big business turning over £1000000's a week. They can and will help out tenants as judges are reluctant to evict.

In private renting you are also in an assured shorthold tenancy but the landlord has a bit more power as he is a small business. He can give notice to quit on you if you break your terms, don't pay your rent. He doesn't have to be nice and let you clear the short fall. Judges will evict private tenants more as they can't expect a private landlord to bankroll tenants. If a landlord wants to sell up they can, if you want to move your tenancy doesn't get transfered.

I believe you can inherit some tenancies, even.

It is terrifying living knowing you might be homeless any minute, especially if you have nothing to fall back on, so I can see why people would worry.

Where I live since April 2016 tenancies became for 5 years I believe, and they get reviewed after that.

I think it depends on the area, your age and whether you have DC or not.

where i live anyone can apply for social housing, Firesuityou just have to have a right to live in the uk[permanently] and local connections to the town.

Up till 4 years ago my housing association used to put new tenants on 6 month starter tenancy and after that you were upgraded to an assured tenancy. But not any more now when someone moves to a new house whether new or existing tenants everyone goes on a starter tenancy then a fixed term tenancy which is reviewed every 5-7 years. I was lucky when I moved it was just before the change so I kept my assured tenancy but when my friend moved just after the change she had to go on a starter tenancy even though it was the same housing association.
The assured tenancy rents also are usually lower than the fixed term tenancy rents.

But how does a permanent tenancy work? If say I met the conditions to get a house the. A year later I got a good job would u not be asked to leave to free up the social housing for someone who needed that safety net? Presumably if I have 2 kids and a three bedroom property I can keep that even when they leave home? (And have to pay bedroom tax on the additional empty rooms or downsize?)

Also as I posted the other day 100,000 people are still in the very very old regulated tenancies for life even with private landlords with very very low fixed rent act type rents.

If you type in the area where you live in here www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-register-fair-rents/ you can see all the regulated tenancies in your area. Eg some in my area are about £400 a month and market rents for say a 2 bed flat are more like £1000 a month.

Wow Thanks Lucysky I'm shocked at the difference at what the fair rent amount is & what we pay. That's a huge amount of difference really frustrating actually. So is that what HA or social housing would charge? Yet as private tenants we pay £700 more! Or do I have something confused

I'd guess that the move towards fixed term tenancies is to prevent people from occupying properties that are bigger than needed when their circumstances change and alternative smaller properties are available. But that actually sounds too sensible to be true given the unreasonable way the bedroom tax has been imposed in the absence of suitable properties to move to and assistance for moving.

Mine is a permanent tenancy providing I pay the rent etc and I am thankful as DS might always need to call this place home.

I am very grateful to have been offered it as it's very difficult here to get anything. I am lucky.

It shouldn't be permanent. What about people who get a council tenancy when in bad circumstances and then later on get good jobs/married.win the lotto/whatever? They stay in council or social housing on low rents for life while people in dire straits can't get housed at all?

How is that fair?

I think it's great to have a lifetime rental opportunity with a reasonable rent but it only works for society in general if the council continues to build houses, doesn't it? That's what's needed so badly.

Remember that those fair i.e. unfair rents meant there was nothing to rent in the UK! When we first came down to London there were bed sits in run down houses o r properties let out by criminals or sharing with a landlady but no sensible good landlord would let out a normal flat or nice house to rent because the rent did not even begin to cover their costs and the tenant was in there for life.

The assurance shorthold changed all that and meant suddenly landlords did let properties out - hence the wide range of flats and houses all over the country that loads of people rent perfectly happily.

However it did not solve the problem for those who are not in work.

If you have two people on minimum wage where I live both working full time you can afford the £1000 a month. NLW £12, 561 each after tax = £25,122 a year net , half of which goes on your rent. Not easy but possible. If you achieve the dizzy heights of my son's post man wage at almost double that minimum wage then you can certainly afford to rent around here at market rates particularly if you have two full time salaries.

I'm in a HA flat. When I was allocated it 10 years ago I was given an assured tenancy agreement. But now it's the same as Tiddler7. A letter came round saying that tenancy's are now for 5 years and then reviewed.