To astro turf my garden?

[hibbledobble]

I put beautiful turf down and it's sadly looks like the pennines now: bumpy and lots of dead patches.

Astro turf would mean minimal maintenance and would look good, not good for environment though and pricey.

Wibu to astro turf it? If not, how does one maintain a lawn?

I have it because it is better for my disabled child as do other people I know.

Yabu.the planet is already swimming in discarded plastic. Why add to it? And can you honestly say a morning barefoot walk on the astroturf will feel remotely pleasant or poetic?

There are loads of play opportunities in a garden that don't involve a lawn. My DC's happiest hours when they were little was digging holes, filling with water and bathing in them. Though I guess that the people who can't bear the thought of real grass because of the soil underneath are recoiling in horror at the thought of their little ones having mud baths.
And there are also opportunities for hide and seek, and building dens. And looking for insects, and helping plant seeds and flowers. And climbing on top of the shed and just chilling there.
Of course these opportunities may not be "safe" - but surely the role of a patent is to allow children to take risks in a relatively safe way, rather than wrapping them in cotton wool.
I'm finding this thread quite sad actually - the whole fear of the natural environment that is being expressed by some posters.

'There are loads of play opportunities in a garden that don't involve a lawn'

'And there are also opportunities for hide and seek, and building dens. And looking for insects, and helping plant seeds and flowers. And climbing on top of the shed and just chilling there.'

I do agree to some extent but unfortunately our garden is a horrible concrete and gravelly mess. Nowhere for children to run without falling on hard things (eldest is a toddler) and it's just not fun. It's tiny as well. I really wish I had the garden you describe with places to hide etc and I do let her help plant tubs.

Not everyone has the same space- we are doing our best with what we have. Does everyone who is against AstroTurf lead a completely eco friendly life? No plastic elsewhere, no long flights etc or is it just garden stuff?

I love my fake lawn. Before the space was a mixture of broken paving stones and weeds, that was unusable. I didn't get rid of a living lawn, there was no lawn there to start with. In fact, I added plants to attract bees and butterflies, previously there had been non-flowering shrubs.

It's now a space we use and enjoy as a family. If someone after us wants to change it, that's up to them. According to people on this thread it'll be as easy as pulling up the plastic and chucking some grass seed down.

nerrsnerr you keep asking if everyone who is against astroturf leads a completely eco friendly life: of course they don't. That would be almost impossible in modern western society, or at least make life extremely difficult.

People make choices based on their priorities. Some might give up their car and rely on public transport (fairly easy in a city, very difficult in rural areas); some might try to go plastic-free (extremely difficult anywhere, takes a huge effort).

I think what gets people's backs up about laying astroturf is that it takes zero effort NOT to astroturf your garden. Unlike those other examples you can make zero effort and it's better for the environment. If we can't even make the no-effort choices, how are we going to make the huge changes needed to start to improve our environmental situation? I don't know if I've explained myself very well, but that's the thing I find particularly depressing about it anyway.

Rolf children are not all the same. 'safe' is relative to the child. One child might eat soil and be happy about, another might eat soil and decide they don't like it. Another might eat soil, hate it, hurt themselves and attack their parents but still do it again. That child needs more controlled access than is possible in a garden. People need to think beyond their own lives.

Another might eat soil, hate it, hurt themselves and attack their parents but still do it again.

Whaaaattt???

I wonder how big the Astro turfed gardens are, in general? Some posters are making it sound like people have covered over large tracts of Kew Gardens or Epping Forest...
Mine is a tiny London postage stamp, any "lawn" or flower beds I had were kicked to shreds with a football ; there was literally no point in trying to grow anything until the kids are older.
I certainly haven't done away with any green verdant rolling lawns and fragrant wild meadows.
And I have fabulous Virginia Creeper climbing over everything that stands upright

Collectively we are covering over vast tracts of land like Epping Forest.
I accept that some children will have additional needs - but I think only one or two on this thread have given that as a reason for putting down plastic.
kate I agree with you. It's not easy to be green so when two options are available and equally do-able why not go for the eco option?

floggingmolly trouble is all those tiny spaces add up to vast fucking great big ones. Driveways being paved over are causing massive environmental problems. Driveways might be a bit bigger than some gardens but they're still small. Even the smallest back gardens can be incredible wildlife havens.

sparechange good question. I suppose you plan the garden around that either leaving a much smaller and thus more manageable area of lawn for playing or something else like bark chippings. It's really growing in popularity in the States so someone must have found a good solution. I bet lots of people astroturfing are doing it in small gardens where there isn't a lot of space to run around in the first place so it makes no difference to fill the space with a gravel garden.

"There is a whole 'no lawn' movement, I think in the States mostly..."

In some parts of the states, maintaining a green lawn is awful for the environment due to the local rainfall etc. I think that is where the movement has come from, maybe.
In general, working with the local conditions is much easier and more environmentally friendly than trying to fight them.

My personal gripe is golf courses - so unnatural, they may as well be astroturf in some cases. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24378868

That is true, Rolf and Dust

I have taken everyone's feedback on board and I'm getting a gardener to quote on both returfing and astro turfing and advise me.

mary as others have said flats tend to be far smaller than houses over here, and 'condos' don't really exist. Their is a luxury development near me which might have what you consider a condo, but they are far more expensive than my victorian terrace (and most likely smaller too). The architecture is different round here: rows upon rows of victorian terraces.

dust
What ecological benefit does a gravel garden have over an AstroTurf one? Or paving slabs over an AstroTurf one?

I posted a pic of my garden upthread
We have a huge apple tree, 10 foot high buddlea on 2 sides, magnolia, honeysuckle and jasmine covering all of the fences, a herb garden, fruit plants, beds with veggies, and plenty more besides

A 20x20ft bit of AstroTurf, which replaced concrete paving slabs, has made absolutely zero net difference to the eco-friendliness of the garden

In fact, because it was such a dark, slippery and miserable space pre-AstroTurf, there was none of the planting that we have now because no one could stand being out thrrr long enough to plant or maintain anything, let alone appreciate it

There are plenty of things people do in their houses which put the occupiers, and not the environment first

Why all the hand wringing at astrotuf but none at people who get nylon carpet? It's the same thing - a vast bit of plastic that has to be disposed of eventually.
Why none of the anger on threads about converting a front garden to a driveway? Or redecorating with vinyl paint? Or getting laminate floor, or a new dishwasher, or kitchen or anything else that creates unnecessary waste and has environmentally harmful production methods

All this handwringing seems a bit misplaced tbh

I think the main difference sparevhange is that the eco-alternatives to nylon carpets, laminate floors etc are a whole lot more expensive. In the case of turf v plastic the lifetime, and probably initial costs, of the eco option are far, far less - so it's not a case of blithely assuming that everyone can afford to go green.

OP please do let us know what you decide

Lol at a lawn being a zero-effort option. I can't even begin to describe the time and money we spent trying to keep a small lawn useable. Ever heard of shade, moss, leaves, inhospitable soil etc etc? There's only so many thousands of pounds you can spend without looking at other options. As a family you want a useable garden that everyone will enjoy.

I love moss!
I find it fascinating how much variation there is even within a very small patch of lawn, like my own. There is a very shady, damp bit of my lawn that is mainly moss, but I don't bother trying to remove it. It looks lovely and lush and green, and on sunny days it is the softest bounciest bit of the garden.
If daisies and buttercups were hard to grow, I reckon there would be a whole industry built up around trying to cultivate them on our lawns. My lawn is at its most beautiful a few days after mowing, when the daisies and buttercups have recovered and the green is once more sprinkled with colourful flowers.

I counted 22 bees in my lavender this morning.
Don't think the plastic is deterring them.

sparechange I don't really think it's fair to look at my posts and describe them as handwringing. My first post was just 'hey did you consider this alternative? It's really cool.' Most people have no idea of the impact plastic is having on the environment. I didn't until recently. I've been really shocked. It's fair enough to talk about that so other people are aware.

Your garden sounds amazing though imo concrete paving slabs are preferable to astroturf. I'm not going to judge you for your choice. None of us are perfect. But astroturf is not ecologically friendly. Not at all. And it's really irrelevent about nylon carpets in the context of this thread. The op wasn't discussing carpets. Anyway I dislike them too. Although there is now a company turning waste fishing nets into carpets which look really cool. Just because we aren't all perfect doesn't mean we can all take steps to do more. With that attitude none of us would do anything because there'd be no point.

The op is free to make the best choice for her. It would just be nice if she goes with the environmentally friendly one. Nothing wrong with saying that and pointing out alternatives

veuve there are so many insects other than bees though lovely as it is that they're enjoying your lavender. I bet you could sit on a patch of lawn and spot 10 different types of insects in a few minutes

I was just trying to lighten things.
I have trees and shrubs and tons of plants with plenty of insects, snails, caterpillars, butterflies.
I also have parakeets, birds galore, and foxes and squirrels,

Bees are loving my lavender too.

Regardless of the lawn option, our garden will have plenty of plants including trees.

In terms of the environment I don't think a monoculture like a grass lawn is the best. I'm considering planting a meadow, I just don't know if it's great for children to play on it.

I like moss too, squishy And I would choose a shady, mossy lawn over plastic grass everytime. Lawn doesn't have to be grass. Not everyone wants a perfect, smooth green garden. And the more I hear about how much people love their astroturf the more I realise that I can't think of any situation (apart from one like spikeyball's) in which I'd choose it.

hippy I didn't say maintaining a lawn was zero effort. It takes as much or as little effort as you want to put in depending on how perfect you want your lawn to be and the conditions in your garden. I said in terms of making environmentally friendly choices not astroturfing is zero effort in comparison to giving up your car or trying to go plastic-free. It's a situation in which the choice to actively do something (change to astroturf) is more damaging than doing nothing (leaving your garden as it is). Usually with these choices it's the other way round: doing nothing is damaging but easy while making change is positive but difficult.

Hibble- I was advised to get a specialist company to do it, rather than a gardener.
They need to get the layers right for drainage etc. I think there's some cowboys out there.
They should bring you samples too, not just the standard ones you can buy in b and q