To consider sending DC to a Steiner school

[Cherrypancakes]

Has anyone got DC at one?

Just trying to find the original article I read...

Here is one thing www.sciencealert.com/late-readers-close-learning-gap

www.otago.ac.nz/news/news/otago006408.html

I have seen nothing to indicate that learning to read earlier leads to better outcomes in the long term. In a standard school setting reading early is important as it is needed to access the material needed for the class, but in a Steiner setting it isn't as needed at the same point.

I have direct experience as a parent. If you are confident as a parent about what is best for your child and when I believe you can get a lot out of it. At Steiner I could argue with a teacher and really put my point across, I felt I had a say in how my child was educated even within that system, and went on a real journey with the teacher. For example my dc began to read spontaneously just before they learnt their alphabet in school, so I supported that at home. Had poor gross motor skills so I supplemented physical activities not covered at school. If you are prepared to take responsibility for the overall education of your dc you can take what you want from it and benefit ime, you dont have to be brainwashed, its about the opposite of that.

But "not being advantageous" is not the same as being disadvantageous, which is what you stated at the end of your sentence.

Also, that's only one study.

I'm not in the UK but agree that a later teaching of literacy and of starting school is not a bad thing. Just pointing out that for my older kids it would have been a poor fit as it seemed surprisingly rigid and rule based.

No, Montessori is a totally different thing with the only similarity being that they are both slightly "hippyish" compared to mainstream schooling.

Having said that, I don't think they learned more about reading at their standard school though. They just taught themselves and haven't stopped. But they were both reading Harry Potter by seven so being discouraged from literacy would have frustrated them.

What about maths and science? One of my kids (now year 4) is very mathy and has fantastic enrichement pull out classes. I was good at maths at school and was always second or third in maths/physics in the class but she's way quicker than me.

Does it cater for the non academically average kid? What about children with special needs or specific learning disorders?

I personally think you can judge a school by how it responds to those children who are needing extra academic support, in either direction. Don't you have the same teacher all the way through?

Agree that Montessori only shares a few similarities with Steiner.

A lot of people think they know what Steiner represents, but it's largely based on hearsay, gossip and sensationalism.

I genuinely never experienced any type of brainwashing, neither did my parents...we all watched plenty of TV...brought our Sony Walkmans into school (this was the 80s) ...it really wasn't a problem.

We even had a computer in the school library

nolonger - my friend's DS went to the same Steiner school as we did. He's graduated from Durham with a 2:1 in Maths.

Back when we were at school maths & science was a bit hit and miss. I think Steiner schools are a lot more savvy about these subjects now, from what I hear?

You do have the same teacher from Year 1 through to Year 8, and they cover all subjects - but when you enter the Upper School you have specialist teachers to prepare you for O levels/GCSEs.

Most of the teachers at my school were very highly qualified and had further degrees.

My weird cousins went to one.
They're much more weird now.
I went to one for a term, the corn dolls terrified my dad.
They're probably a bit different these days.

Don't listen to the naysayers you know your own kid go look at the school, ask to observe a bunch of classes and make your own mind up... Ps there is nothing culty about teaching to a child's strengths in a nurturing environment it builds their self esteem concentrating on the things they are good at , and with each day that they feel better, their confidence grows in other subjects that they may not have felt they could do previously. I know lots of people who where schooled both in the UK and in Europe under Rudolph Steiner schooling and they are all excelling at the thing they enjoy.

I do have some experience of Steiner Education (though my kids are state educated). The principles of Rudolf Steiner's philosophy are adhered to by teaching children in 7 year cycles, this is why they have the same teacher throughout lower school (years 1-8) who forms a very close bond over this period.
TV is not encouraged (frowned upon really) and the children are not introduced to computers until year 9 (14 years old) when they have different specialist subject teachers. Music is taught and practiced daily (recorder) and the children knit (hands on crafts are part of the curriculum, woodcarving, pottery etc). There is a lot of outdoor work, animal husbandry, repairing fencing and grounds maintenance as well as gardening and farming with the emphasis on biodynamics (Google the method, it's partly crop rotation, partly magical thinking).

They follow concentrated one subject lessons for half a term and have a structure of 1 day listening (teacher talks), next day discussion in class, then next day record information (the kid's workbooks are like works of art, their musings are always accompanied by illustration alongside their essays). Sleep is considered vital to this process (especially between listening and discussion days).

The school day starts with Eurythmy (again Google it) which is a vital element to how the children learn to read. In a nutshell it's a combination of meditation, dance/movement and yoga-ish martial art performed in a group. A 'B' sound has a specific shape and movement for example. It's used to focus and bond the children before they begin the days learning.

There is however, an antivax climate and Rudolf Steiner believed in reincarnation (this is where the controversial race issue comes in, it's the idea that as we move through life and become more enlightened our skin colour reflects the change by changing from dark to light, I should add that this thinking is rejected today, but that's the origin). I think of the Steiner ethos as a merging of Christianity (angels seem to be a theme), Buddhism and Paganism, but this is my own perspective formed from observation of other people's children who have been Steiner educated.

I don't think it's for everyone, it can be restrictive. They claim to have no uniform but essentially we're talking about hand-knitted wool jumpers etc (no logos or labels allowed) which is its own form of identity in itself (crunchy?). The kids and teachers also wear indoor soft slippers. I think there is a connection too to those who believe in "Indigo Children" (another Google, sorry).

Sleep your point about the no uniform is very true. My mum sent me because she thought as I was a highly sensitive child a school that played to my strengths and taught in a less pressurising environment would be best for me. It was very cliquey. I had a small packet of iced gems in my lunch box one day and I was absolutely ridiculed. Every child is dressed the same and even though the parents tried so hard to give their kid's out there names, there were still multiple Sunshine's, Falcon's and Spike's. My mum pulled me out very quickly and homeschooled for a few more terms until a place at the nice state primary near us (the other one was failing and on the brink of closure) came up.
This is 15 years ago though, so like I said before it could be very different now.

The schools tend to have a strong eco culture, so likely to be lots of vegans, veggies, low impact living. That said as most of us have to go out of area to get to one, we're likely to have cars!

It does vary from school to school, and it won't suit every child. It's not easy to assess on the outcomes, as it has very involved parents and also a higher proportion of children with additional needs. Many of us end up there when the mainstream doesn't suit our children.

I really wanted to like them as there are no Montessori schools anywhere near us but their philosophy is very disturbing and the fact that multiple sources from people who have attended the schools and/ or worked for them attest to the fact that they actively hide this from parents, is so wrong. Consider Montessori?

I never heard a word about gnomes either!

There was no uniform, and logos and branded clothes were discouraged but I think that was a good thing. Students wore jeans, sweatshirt, t-shirts very similar to Continental students. No hand knits as I recall?

All Steiner schools will have slightly different methods...some more main stream, others more beans&wool

cherrypancakes are you looking at a state or private school?

Our local Steiner school (state) has posted its outcomes for KS2, and precisely 4% of children reached expected levels in maths and english. I know that's not the be-all and end-all, but it's still pretty low (as the class size is about 25, that's basically one child).

There are not a higher proportion of children with additional needs there as they are actively discouraged from applying.

I had experience of Steiner early years education, and it was enough to make me run for the hills; I really do think that they are an odd cult that puts doctrine above the needs of the child.

I also don't think that they are very creative - there are strict guidelines about what art is appropriate at which level, so a lot of the artworks come out identical. Most primary schools produce a much more interesting and diverse range of art.

Op I have direct experience and my DS1 attended one for a while.

What is it about them that attracts you? Start from that and you might get targeted answers.

As many said they are all run slightly differently, and as each class stays together through school in fact each individual class is a microcosm.

If it's 'creativity' that you find attractive let me address that: myself and DP are from arts backgrounds. We found their attitude to art and design prescriptive and archaic.

To explain: arts and crafts are part of Steiner in very defined and prescriptive ways. - a child will learn to make a wooden sword at a certain point in kindergarten because this is deemed 'developmentally appropriate' similarly for knitting - this is taught for hand eye coordination. Wet-on-wet watercolour painting is taught and you will find all the children's pictures very similar; and the paper corners are rounded because of square corners being unnatural (!)

Independent thought and inquisitiveness is not encouraged - even though one would get the impression that this is what it's all about! Any straying from the prescribed age-appropriate curriculum is not on- so no reactive teaching driven by current affairs of a particular event locally (olympics, space stations, eclipse, anniversary of world events).

In my book 'creativity' is fostered by a foundation in encouraging individual investigation and interest, ready access to books and resources on what a child is interested in and sparking off current events (Tim Peake in space for example). This is the opposite of Steiner in that it's inward looking and children in kindergarten who ask questions about the world are told stuff about gnomes in the garden instead of amazing things about the plant we live on.

Not that I am saying mainstream schools do a great job at all this either - but DS1 has had opportunities in mainstream he'd never have had.

There are not a higher proportion of children with additional needs there as they are actively discouraged from applying

^ this!

Never confuse a later prescribed start to reading with a gentler and more child-centric approach.

Steiner have the strictest and least differentiated curriculum I have ever come across. It would suit those who want strong pedagogic authority, and who support (or at a minimum will not object to) the anthrosophist belief system.

Montessori (when done properly) is the one to go for if you want child-centric.

Never confuse a later prescribed start to reading with a gentler and more child-centric approach

This is true my dd was reading and writing at 4 years old mainly because she had ASD so was quite bright at using written words as a form of communication as she was otherwise non verbal.
Every time she wrote in class the work was taken away from her as she should have been 'expressing herself through art' so she basically lost her 'voice'

I went to one.

I would absolutely agree with the PP who said that sport (and by extension anything competitive) was shameful. Something else to be aware of is that the children will have the same teacher from age 6 to 14. You're therefore completely at the mercy of an individual's personality and whims, as if there's a personality clash you don't just get a different teacher next year. Attitudes to behaviour and bullying were not brilliant. There tended to be a high concentration of totally ineffective parents (generally calling themselves 'gentle'). The school was very cliquey, and there were definitely 'in' brands - they just tended to be expensive art supplies rather than shoes and clothes.

While there are some huge and occasionally embarrassing holes in my knowledge, having transferred to a mainstream school I have qualifications and a decent job. Some of my classmates...not so much. It is not something I am considering for my own DC despite living near a Steiner school.

Hmmm I read 'the gentle parenting book' and the gentle parenting thing sounded great and not at all prescriptive. But it recommended steiner schools (as well as montessori schools) as a good alternative to state schools. I'm not sure how that ties in with 'kids with disabilities shouldn't be supported' and 'all the pictures look the same'. Have I been taken in by gentle parenting?

I though I must admit I tend to smile when I see a bunch of alternative, independent thinkers all dressed the same way.

Every school is different.

A friend sent her children there because she loved the way the children looked like a rainbow- all different clothes and colours. Generally scruffier than state school children though, as depending on the day they would have been gardening, painting, cooking, building a bonfire...

The eurythmy exercise/dance is a bit like brain gym. Those exercises you do to connect both sides of your brain, develop coordination etc.

You have to be pretty laid back as a Steiner parent, I think. It's pretty niche.

Some friends of ours pulled their daughter out in year 4, she was 2 years behind the state school. She was also very immature due to the lack of structure and guidance at the school. I would be cautious.