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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask your advice to help me get my Nan's money back??

22 replies

ethelfleda · 03/07/2017 19:09

Firstly - sorry for the length of this!
My 89 year old grandmother has been royally ripped off to the tune of £5k by a rogue tradesman.
She was in hospital over Christmas (intensive care for 3 weeks) and very nearly died. Luckily she pulled through and was allowed home after Christmas to recover (with carers) this is relevant as at the time the tradesman contacted - she was very vulnerable. Usually she would have no problem with spotting a cowboy a mile off but was still very poorly in Feb when someone cold called her to ask if she needed a new boiler. She actually did need a new boiler but was going to wait until later on this year to sort. Anyway, this guy came around and fitted her new boiler and took 4 different amounts in 4 different cheques over various visits between Feb and May. She has paid him a total of £8k. He hasn't given her one scrap of paperwork. No quote was provided and she hasn't had an invoice or paperwork for the boiler. He filled in every cheque and asked her to sign them! The last two cheques she was very hesitant to sign and said she felt pressured in to doing so.
Some time after that, she decided to contact trading standards who then convinced her to confide in a family member... this is where I come in! Nobody in the family knew about this situation and I'm the only one who knows now as she is a proud woman! The TS officer also told her to obtain a quote from another source for the same work so we can see what a reasonable charge would be. She did and has a quote in writing for £3k for the same work. Three weeks ago, I called the trader in question and politely explained that he has made a mistake and could she have some of her money back. He said he was looking in to it that they had made a 'cock up' their end and would send her a cheque as well as the missing paperwork. We waited a week. Nothing. I called and chased him again and gave him a deadline of another 7 days. Again, nothing. Week before I sent him a letter 'final letter before action' and gave him 7 days to respond. Still nothing.
Here is the major problem - if we take his ltd company to court (that already has 1 CCJ against it and he is closing down - so he says) the chances of my Nan winning are high but chances of her actually getting her money back are pretty much zero. So she gets no money back AND lumbered with court costs! Obviously not an ideal outcome.
The TS officer said that she could argue that in the absence of any paperwork, she was trading with him the individual rather than his company giving us a better chance of any of his personal assets being used to reimburse her. He advised my Nan to get copies of the 4 cheques and if he had made them out to his personal bank this would back her claim. She has the copies and I have bought them home with me. They are made out to his company NOT him. So my question is, what can I do about it?? Surely it's not just a dead end now and no point in pursuing the matter further? Could she still argue that she thought she was trading with the individual as HE filled the cheques in for her to sign?
I desperately want to get her money back for her - she is so distressed about the whole thing and is having trouble sleeping etc. Surely there must be something I can do??
I really do not know how some people sleep at night!!

OP posts:
Natural36 · 03/07/2017 19:14

Contact watchdog maybe . so sorry your grandmother was ripped off in this way and very vulnerable .

UnconsideredTrifles · 03/07/2017 19:18

What a horrible thing to happen!

Was it a gas boiler? If so then he should have been Gas Safe and provided appropriate paperwork. If no paperwork you might be able to use this as leverage? I know there can be criminal sanctions for non-gas safe people fitting boilers and he wouldn't want that...

ethelfleda · 03/07/2017 19:31

I believe it is a gas boiler. The TS officer is prosecuting him for this and the no paperwork thing. He has taken a statement etc from my Nan. I'm gathering this is a separate issue to the money thing?

OP posts:
ButDoYouAvocado · 03/07/2017 19:40

Local paper might be a good start?

ethelfleda · 03/07/2017 20:13

Perhaps if I could convince her. But she is a very proud woman and has asked me not to tell anyone else in the family.

OP posts:
Morecaffeineplease · 03/07/2017 20:44

Do you have a local radio station that could help? We have 3CR which has a daily consumer programme.

Or You & Yours on Radio4?

Legal cover on house insurance? They may fight her corner.

user1471545174 · 03/07/2017 21:04

Rip Off Britain. Or that guy who used to do the building rip-off show.

SpongySand · 03/07/2017 21:54

I work in retail banking. She's 89, does she actually NEED this money back? Has it just eaten into her savings or does it completely ruin her financially? The reason being the fallout of this and trying to repair it may be worse for her than just letting it go. Even though its not what she deserves I've seen this happen to older customers and it is best sometimes to let it go.

ethelfleda · 03/07/2017 23:38

I'm not entirely sure. I think it has hit her hard but not ruined her financially. I hate the thought of her being worse off but why should he be allowed to get away with it and her not get her money back?

OP posts:
ChildishGambino · 03/07/2017 23:39

Watchdog or Trading standards. Or dispute it with the bank.

ChildishGambino · 03/07/2017 23:39

Citizens advice may be able to help more?

shadey171 · 03/07/2017 23:53

I am a county court bailiff and although I cannot give any legal advice procedural advise i would give is take it to court apply for the debt to be against him directly for example "joe blogs" trading as fix my boiler ltd. which you can do if he is a director or sole trader working as a ltd company, then if he stops trading he is still liable to pay you can then apply for a warrant of control the cost of which gets added on to the original debt and if a bailiff can't get him to pay or take control of sufficient goods to pay it off then you can follow that up with an application for an attachment if earnings. Which will follow him through Into any future employment he might take. The cost for that application can be added to debt also, on top of that if your gm is in a lower income/ pension and has less than 3 k in savings she could apply for some or all of the fees to be paid using an ex160 form. All the guidance you need is on web- www.justice.gov.uk the forms can be downloaded from there also. Ps if he declares himself bankrupt this type of debt wouldn't be included. Also if he was to apply for an iva you gm can refuse to include this debt in it so either way she should be able to get it back. I know that was long winded but I really hope it helps you can message me if you want any more help. Hope you get him. Angry people taking advantage like that make me really mad.

missymayhemsmum · 03/07/2017 23:54

Find him on facebook. Message him, asking for the money back. Make it clear that you know who he is, who his friends are, where he drinks etc, and are prepared to not only go the 'official' route but also to disgrace him personally because he is a lowlife scum disgrace to the plumbing profession.

Or go the legal route and accept that his company may fold, expecially if he ends up jailed for not being gas safe registered.

Or let it go. Your gran will be one of many, she doesn't need to feel a fool over this.

Either way the most important thing is to make sure that the boiler has been properly fitted and isn't dangerous.

Reassure your gran that by speaking out she is protecting other, perhaps even more vulnerable pensioners from being scammed.

notanevilstepmother · 04/07/2017 00:11

Please get someone to check the installation is safe. A check should be about £60 depending on where you are.

shadey171 · 04/07/2017 00:13

Or go the legal route and accept that his company may fold, expecially if he ends up jailed for not being gas safe registered
If she takes the legal route his debt doesn't go away if company folds or if he goes to jail she can still get her money back OP please don't listen to incorrect legal or non legal advice like that.

SlothMama · 04/07/2017 00:15

Could it be taken to court and then a Bailiff be appointed to collect the money? (I watch Call The Sheriff too much Blush )

shadey171 · 04/07/2017 00:21

Yes SlothMama but you don't need to get high court bailiff if the debt is more than 5 k then you can't enforce as a lump sum with a county court warrant but the ccj/ judgement will have a monthly or weekly payable order to him then gm could repeatedly get small warrant amounts each time for example that you ask for a warrant of £500 then the £110 fee is added and collected at the same time by the bailiff and to be honest as a bailiff it is easier to recover smaller amounts from this sort of person repeatedly rather than trying to get a big lump sum. Sorry I have my work head on x

DonaldStott · 04/07/2017 00:29

It's a shame your nan won't go public. Maybe put it to her as she is saving other people from getting ripped off. Tell him it is going to go all over social media if he doesn't pay up. If you hear nothing, then I would put it all over social media. Facebook. Local fb sites. Twitter. Instagram. Name and shame him on mumsnet. Local newspaper with sad face pics. EVERYWHERE.

SlothMama · 04/07/2017 00:29

Don't apologise Shadey! It's brilliant to have people on here with knowledge about these matters!

shadey171 · 04/07/2017 00:54

Thanks it's rare I get so involved in a thread but I hate when people especially vulnerable people get conned like this its horrific, and i feel obligated to try and give better/ acurate advice when it's something that I can help with xx hope OPs GM does make a claim for ccj and a warrant of control, i also hope he lives in my jurisdiction I'd happily enforce a warrant against him.

ethelfleda · 04/07/2017 07:50

Thank you so much everyone.
Shadey to be honest that is what I was hoping for - that we can apply for the debt to be against him rather than his ltd company and she can get her money back that way! Thank you so much

I am going to call CAB today and also the TS officer to ask about the safety of the boiler. I will also try to convince her to go public with what has happened to her.

I really wasn't ready to give up on this yet. My Nan needs to find some peace after the year she has had!! And people like him make me so angry!

OP posts:
turnaroundbrighteyes · 04/07/2017 08:28

If you do contact him directly it might be worth warning him that if your nan doesn't get her 5k plus paperwork and he liquidated the company you will write to Companies House with full details of the TS case and ask that he be struck off as a Director and unable to start up a new company. That might give some leverage in getting the money back as it means he can't just close old co, lose the debts and then open new company and start again. Obviously I'd still do this anyway! Or TS might already have that angle covered.

Similarly the police might be interested as, and I'm a little sketchy on this, but I think there are laws to protect the vulnerable when it comes to being sold to in your own home that he's definitely broken eg no quote and cooling off period. Not sure if that's civil or criminal law though.

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