To put in a complaint against NHS

[Vanillaisboring666]

My beautiful 14 year old dd attended hospital Tuesday last week to have her ACE stoma reversed . It was a simple 20 min procedure that was class's as day case surgery. We arrived at 8am and she went down to theatre at 12pm , arrived back onward at 1pm . At 230 pm she was discharged . She was un comfortable but managed to walk to car . Upon getting in car began to cry saying she was in a bit of pain . I got her home and into bed and gave paracetomol as per hospital instruction. At 4pm she was in agony and sweating. Took her to A&E as day case unit advised on phone they would be closing at 8pm . Anyways 2 hrs in a&e she was sweating , breathing fast and writhing in agony. After 2 hrs a paed doc came and gave oromorph and placed her on paediatric ward. She stayed overnight and was given regular oromorph but she was still In agony . The sister the next morning said it was post op pain and told me to take her home amd have a duvet day and give paracetomol. By this point she could not walk and looked gravely I'll with sweat running down her face. I took her home and once again tucked her up in bed. At 4pm wednesday (day after her stoma reversal ) she was in absolute agony so I called gp and he prescribed oromorp and we gave it her overnight. Thursday mornine she was unable to lift her head and gp advised over the phone i ring an ambulance . Ambulance arrived (after 1.5hrs) and she was once again took to a&e . A gastronsurgeon came immediately and she was then rushed to theatre . I was signing consent forms running along corridor. It was terrifying. Anyways she ended up having a full blown laparotomy after the attempt at doing surgery laparoscopically failed. She has 4 laparoscopically incisions and a huge vertical cut down her tummy from laparotomy and also a cut on right side of tummy from her ace reversal surgery and initial ace surgery. She has been through hell. She was on itu for two days and is now on ward but is still critically ill as having temps and heart rate fast. The surgeon who did the ace reversal was never informed dd was readmitted by the ward and has profusely apologised as he said this should never have happened. He is going to be looking into why he was not told dd was back in hospital with pain 4 hrs after his surgery and why the bloody hell she was discharged in such a terrible state the next day when she was very obviously seriously ill. She is so so so poorly now and is still critically ill amd at risk of sepsis . She will be getting ct scan tomorrow as nothing is bringing down her temps . I am furious she was made to suffer such pain for 48 hrs and has ended up needing full blown laparotomy. If her surgeon had of been informed on the Tuesday he said he could have managed to do surgery laparoscopically. Instead he said her abdomen was so full of puss and poo he had to open her tummy from top to bottom. I am heart broken and not coping well with seeing how much pain she is in. I am strong in front of dd but have to go to toilet amd cry every now and then. We have a huge long road ahead to get her better but I am now starting to realise just how appallingly she has been treat by the ward who initially discharged her. No doctor even examined her before discharge and the sister said it was post op pain amd to have a duvet day and paracetomol ? I can tell the hospital is shitting themselves as they rolling over me and dh now . Even my dds consultant has admitted this should not have happened amd has apologised . He came to see dd twice a day Saturday Sunday despite it being his day off. I pray to god she recovers as docs say she is still critical and may need more surgery amd to go back to picu if her temps don't drop. Sorry it's so long and I hope it makes sense. I'm in bits and can't believe our wonderful nhs could have gotten something so wrong. A routine simple procedure has ended up with 8 hrs of surgery ,paed intensive care for two days,severely in pain child that is bed bound ,catheterised and has no clue just how serious this situation is. Her whole abdomen was filled with puss and poo and her bowel had ruptured . According to ward sister though it was post op pain and all she needed was paracetomol and a duvet day. My dd is so lovely and never complains so I knew something bad was wrong but the sister said she knew best and discharged her ??? AIBU in going to pals ????

Your poor DD. I hope she starts to get better soon.

Of course you should complain but only when you are ready to do so. My father has had awful care for his cancer and I hired a lawyer to manage the complaint with the NHS trust. You don't need to do that to make a complaint but we have found that having a lawyer has resulted in more questions being asked and there is a clear focus of making sure procedures change so the same mistakes don't happened again.

It's extremely difficult to have a doctor barred. They send them for retraining. It's very frustrating. Nurses are normally thrown under the bus. That nurse and doctor who discharged her should both lose their jobs and professional qualifications with having to requalify if they want to work in the field again.

Go to PALS. This due to staffing pressures and lack of beds I bet. I'm so sorry. There is so much training given on sepsis now I would have thought post op even day cases should have been treated with more caution. Best wishes.

As an nhs manager, please go to Pals. If you feel uncomfortable complaining just think of it as sharing a concern. I'm sure the surgeon is dealing with it in his own way but sometimes surgeons dont engage with hospital paperwork. This needs an imcident report, an investigation and lessons to be learned. Don't be afraid to get the ball rolling while your daughter is still being treated. The investigation will be easier and more thorough while it is fresh in the minds of everyone involved. I hope tomorrow brings good news for your dd and she is on the mend.

Dear Vanilla, you are doing a truly fabulous job for your daughter, and it also makes me so sad to hear of her management before it was realised just how poorly she was.
As many other NHS workers have said please believe us when we say that this will be taken very seriously. It is highly likely that it has already been flagged up via an internal incident reporting tool. And the subsequent investigation into the matter is not carried out by the people involved - it is given to someone else who has the clinical insight to be able to impartially judge what has happened.
By all means when you have the strength go to PALS - your input will marry up with the investigation and you will get a reply. It won't prejudice the investigation, but any of the points you raise will be answered specifically.
I can appreciate just how difficult this time is for you; not only are you there supporting your daughter, you also have the observers outside to relate and report to which can be mentally and emotionally draining.

Please look after yourself and I wish your daughter a sound recovery.

As many posters have said, you should 100% complain to PALS. Although this incident will be reported via datix (nhs reporting system), PALS should still know about this so you are getting the right support from them and they can advise you on the process and be updated.
So sorry this has happened to your daughter, which it absolutely shouldn't have. She should have been assessed by the surgical team, not fobbed off by the ward sister.
I wish you and your daughter all the best op

YNBU but unfortunately you'll have people telling you the NHS is under too much pressure and it's not their fault etc. I also ended up being critically ill once after being discharged rather rapidly hours after an ambulance brought me in on a 999 call and the paramedics telling the dog they were concerned I wasn't responding to the meds they'd been given me.

The NHS is not infallible. People and doctors make mistakes and raising a complaint is the only way to highlight statistically what pressure they're under with the cuts.

Hope your DD gets well real soon.

Sorry to hear about her lungs vanilla. I know dps were causing some concern due to the risk of post op pneumonia. I am sure they are doing it anyway but they told us that dp must have physio and sit up out.of bed a few times of day to try and drain the fluid. And it was important to keep pain relief up to encourage dp to move and cough and not be scared of the pain by coughinh.

I know post c section I had a chest infection and asthma and was shown how to hold a pillow on my tummy and breathe into a cough rather than just cough, maybe ask if anyone is around to show your dd?

It was all very scary at the time for us. I can't imagine what you are going through and hope she improves quickly. But be prepared for it to take time. Dp was in for 2 weeks and only discharged then because it was Christmas eve otherwise I think he would have been in longer. It was 12 days before he could eat.

Go to PALS

I wouldn't go to PALs with this. I went to PALs with mine. It resulted in the ward sister ringing me to ask what my complaint was and then saying "okay I'll let him know (the doc that messed up)".

Straight to the top with this one OP. Make sure it's investigated properly.

But as a PP said. Only when you're ready.

I agree with those who have said that fundamentally this boils down to the pressure on beds and the 'get em in, get em out' approach of the NHS under austerity.

I hope things go as well as possible with your lovely daughter's scan today.

I agree with those who have said that fundamentally this boils down to the pressure on beds and the 'get em in, get em out' approach of the NHS under austerity.

It does and it doesn't. A lot of it is down to pressure on beds. Some of it is down to just pure arrogance. The ward was half empty when I was discharged too early. That wasn't bedding/staffing issues. That was the doc who'd never saw me before thinking he knew better. Despite the big note oj the front "previous ITU admissions" which is a big red flag to most sensible doctors.

But it does sound like a"we need the bed case" here. I've never understood this. All they had to do was keep the OPs DD in overnight to keep an eye on her. As it happens it looks like the poor girl will need the bed for a lot longer now than she would have done if they'd just kept her in a day or two.

I too would wait just a bit before complaining, and just focus on your dd.

Complaining is very exhausting. And results are often poor. It's very rare for them to admit liability. Rarely apologise. They just don't seem to have the grace and dignity to do so. Or they just don't realise that thus is actually what most people want.

They will cover their backs, and dismiss and try to demean everything, just so they come out of it looking as least bad as they can. I bet you know this really.

So it's probably best to wait. Because it probably won't end up giving you what you crave and need.

Another HCP here saying please do complain. It is absolutely wrong that she was not seen by a surgeon when first readmitted. It is normal for all children to be admitted under a paediatrician but the paediatricians should have got her urgently reviewed by a surgeon.

Go via PALS, as PPs have suggested. In your complaint, ask the hospital to treat this as a Serious Incident as well as a complaint because your DD suffered harm. Ask them to share the results of their root cause analysis with you, as part of their duty of candour. PM me if you need more info.

And hope your DD feels much better soon

Oblomov - I write complaint responses as I am a NHS manager. What you are saying is absolutely not true as far as my colleagues and I are concerned. I agree though that the process can be draining.

Op - concentrate on your poor kid just now but in due course I would be asking, amongst other things, why post op infection wasn't considered when she presented sweating and in pain and what training the day unit staff have in pain management. It sounds as if they may have assumed she wa a teen with a low threshold for pain. You also need to know whether the speed of discharge after the procedure was typical.

I am so sorry that your daughter is going through this, please contact PALS. for your daughter X

Northern, how is it not true? It may not be in your job. But it does happen in many many areas. Most areas.

And that would make sense. No litigation team, or lawyer ever advises a client to admit everything. They always try to dismiss and get the lowest outcome possible. That's the name of the game.

Any lawyer, would advise and person being complained about/sued, be it an individual, a huge business, a school, the NHS, who ever it is, to play it down. Because that costs less.

Isn't that true?

I agree that you shouldn't be thinking of legal action now, but please don't dismiss the possibility outright given that your daughter is looking at lifelong consequences. There may well come a time when she needs the compensation to which she is entitled to help her deal with those.

Oblomov I can't speak for the NHS. I can speak for me and for my colleagues and no, it isn't true for us.

I've spent lots of time in hospitals with DS. You fine sometimes you just have to say no and ask for a second opinion! They tried to rush DS home 4 hours after a tonsillectomy and his O2 levels were 86%. I refused and body good job as he had pneumonia and was very very ill!!!!
You know your kid!!! Nurses need to clear beds and sometimes Dr doesn't know best.
I've had a couple of incidents like this and wanted to run of to be pals but as soon as DS recovers I see it differently.
DS is severly disabled so I need the NHS and it doesn't need me sueing them for 1 nurses mistake!
Hope DD feels better soon!!!!

Is it worth complaining to PALS about how hard it was getting pain relief from the nurses even through the doctors /consult had all said my father was to have as much as they had prescribed?

My father was in for 3 weeks recently,major operation and I had to talk to the ward sister on at least 3 occasions about night staff 'with holding' prescribed pain meds and my father being in agony over night.

Sorry to derail thread.

How is your DD today Vanilla?

How is your DD today Vanilla?
I'm so horrified by what you and your DD must be going through right now.
Praying she makes a good recovery and comes through it all. xx

This is in no way due to staff shortages or lack of beds. This is about basic nursing/medical care.
A nurse with good expertise would have known what had happened to your daughter just by looking at her. She was showing all the classic signs of a perforated bowel etc. I would most certainly have rung the consultant to let him know of her condition.
A very close friend of mine had a dreadful experience with her father when he had advanced cancer and was in hospital. The care was really dreadful, he wasn't passed on to any of the relevant teams etc.
She complained a few months after his death.
The hospital took it all very seriously. And her fathers case was rolled out at training days for nurses and doctors across the trust, staff were retrained/spoken to, and new systems put in place.
That day Ward needs new training-we are talking basic levels of care here. If you can't provide that you're in trouble.
My friend sought no monetary compensation, she didn't want to take from the NHS, she just wanted to be sure no one else suffered as her dad did.
Good luck OP, I hope your daughter gets better soon.
(I'm a nurse btw, worked in gastro surgery)

I don't want to take legal action and don't think I have implied that at all ?? I just feel y daughters care was appalling and someone needs to be brought to task for it. My dd is a really tough little thing ( we are farmers and she rides horses etc so is very stoical and never ever complains even when she falls off or has a headache etc, she is not a drama queen with regards pain so I knew looking at her she was in agony ) . The ward sister mat deal with whiny teens but my dd was in that much pain she coukd barely speak , was bright red , had red marks on her tummy that was like track marks (not a rash) and was spiking temps left right and centre.

Update on her today

She is going for ct scan as she is still spiking temps and sweating buckets . They think she may need to go back to theatre as after this surgery it's common for a collection of puss to form again in abdomen. This will mean surgery to remove the collection. I hope it isn't this and the temps are from something else that doesn't require surgery ? It's a roller coaster and each day changes from hour to hour .

Thank you for all your amazing support it does mean a lot xx

You poor thing Vanilla, and your poor DD.
Complaining to PALS isn't taking legal action, I'm sure you know that yourself. You definitely need to contact PALS, the hospital will want you to, to be sure it is dealt with. But you have time.
Sending you a big hug (((x))).