To think that the majority of mental health problems are not ' chemical', but are a result of our life experiences

[mychemicalromance]

I've had a lot of interactions with various people over mental health issues lately, and I keep coming across this idea that the majority of these problems are 'chemical'.

I do accept that some mental health issues are caused by biological factors - my DH has low testosterone which affects his ability to manage anxiety.

But I do feel that people (esp in the UK) are very quick to identify the cause of any MH Issue as 'chemical' rather than to attribute it to a reaction to something in their past or present life...

Alpaca - in my experience, some certainly do, but I doubt many of them do.

Surely the two are linked? So difficult life experiences produce the chemical imbalance which produces the mental illness?

I say this with someone as a history of depression, linked to difficult childhood experiences, I refused to take antidepressants as I didn't want a sticking plaster solution, I eventually had therapy which resolved it and haven't been ill for 8 years now.

I'll try again Alpaca, as I inferred from your post that you consider psychotherapies that don't talk about childhood to be non-evidence based:

"
Some branches of psychotherapy think that everything comes back to childhood. Medics tend to disagree. Talking about someone's childhood when they've got suicidal major depression is not likely to walk them back off a ledge compared to proper medication and evidence based therapies."

What did you actually mean to imply?

Absolutely agree with alpaca.

Have had pnd three times over and each time was similar to a switch going off on day 2 or 3. Absolutely have a chemical predisposition to anxiety, with the hormonal change being the trigger on these occasions.

Sorry psychotherpies that DO talk about childhood, that should have said.

I don't agree, I think it is the other way round. I think people are too quick to suggest talking therapy and too reluctant to suggest medication because of all kinds of misconceptions about dependence, not treating the root cause, etc etc.

As pp have said, life experiences change the physical structure of the brain and neural pathways. You can't separate the social from the organic.

Mental health problem ARE "chemical" - they can be seen on an mri and measured in lab tests. But nobody is saying for a minute that life experiences have no impact. Equally there are people who experience severe trauma who don't develop mental illness. It isn't as straightforward as cause and effect.

Maggie That isn't true for everyone. I have bipolar and my mood episodes are seasonal. Talking about them does nothing. Medicating them enables me to have a life.

Therapy isn't the answer for everyone.

For someone with Parkinsons who's on dopamine and hallucinating his nuts off, chatting about his childhood won't help. the problem is the dopamine.

Some menta lhealth conditions are more about changes in the brain. There are many types of mood disorder.

Or are you conflating the issue of treatment being strongly 'drug' i.e. chemical focused, rather than talking therapies and so forth?

I recently read Oliver James's it's not your genes (I think) and am currently reading The Body keeps he score by Bessel van fer Kolk and would highly recommend both to anybody interested in this area.

I absolutely agree that the two are linked. And that chemical changes can be a trigger.

I think that's actually the point I am trying to make.

That these things are not 'just chemical'.

But in fact due to a combination of things. To rule out past experiences as an influence on our current mental health seems bizarre to me...

OP, straight counselling is not recommended for any MH conditions.

Some examples are CBT for anxiety and depression, exposure therapy for phobias, DBT for BPD, mindfulness based CBT and acceptance therapy which is quite new. Also EMDR and trauma specific therapies.

I see what you mean op

And I speak as someone who has had depression and anxiety in the past on and off for years . Mine was definitely triggered by life events

Like a lot of depression is situational i.e. If someone is in a bad relationship, money issues, hates their job etc

Agree completely with Alpaca.

It's also incredibly annoying and patronising to have an illness that is treated effectively with antidepressants and to have people imply that there is a cause in childhood that needs to be addressed in order to come off these.

My experience has been the opposite. Dd has a severe form of the anxiety/depression disorder which has run through my family for at least 4 generations. (It seems linked to Ehlers Danlos syndrome which also runs in the family.)

She has sat through so many appointments where doctors (instead of listening to what she actually tried to tell them) devoted all their eloquence to explaining to her that her problems must be due to a dysfunctional family (we all get on well), or to bullying by her friends (who have been extremely supportive) or to an abusive boyfriend (her boyfriends have all been nice boys), or to sexual abuse (she has, thankfully, never experienced that either).

I don't think she has seen a single doctor or therapist, over the last 10 years, who hasn't started down that track and only reluctantly turned to other possibilities after we have been able (often after months) to demonstrate our complete normality. It used to worry me when she was younger because they were so very positive in suggesting things to her and it made her very unhappy and confused, thinking things like "well, maybe my friends don't like me then, since the doctor seems so sure they don't".

The latest was particularly worrying as dd (now a young adult) had serious (and I mean serious!) concerns about some recent symptoms and the doctor refused to listen but kept insisting that she must be seeking validation after breaking up with her boyfriend. The breakup was 6 months ago, it was amicable, dd has moved on, and so far from seeking validation she hasn't even told him she is ill. He refused to accept things which were clearly stated in her medical files, because he was so completely set on this "life events" narrative. And he really, really isn't the first.

Thankfully, dd has her wonderful GP who has known her all her life- and does read medical notes.
(and before anyone comes back with "they are so short of time", dd was actually called in to her latest app. half an hour early, so 5 minutes to read medical notes would not have gone amiss)

"OP, straight counselling is not recommended for any MH conditions."

What has that statement got to do with this statement???

"Some branches of psychotherapy think that everything comes back to childhood. Medics tend to disagree. Talking about someone's childhood when they've got suicidal major depression is not likely to walk them back off a ledge compared to proper medication and evidence based therapies"

OP perhaps you could try reading it again? I don't really know how to make it simpler I'm afraid..

cory I'm so sorry for your experience, that must have been incredibly frustrating. Glad your GP is good.

"Talking about someone's childhood when they've got suicidal major depression is not likely to walk them back off a ledge compared to proper medication and evidence based therapies"

Though as someone who was walked back off a ledge precisely because psychotherapy enabled me to deal with my childhood trauma where Anti Depressants and scratching my head had resolutely failed me I do have to declare my self interest here.

Actually, Alpaca, I think that your story and mine are 2 sides of the same coin and are the point I was trying to make.

Some MH issues are to do with chemical imbalance. Others are not.

It is horrific to be told by friends that your childhood sexual abuse didn't cause your MH issues because MH issues are 'just chemical' anyway...

But equally, I understnad your POV as well and wouldn't want to be in your shoes either..

I think it is very wrong for your friends to have said that OP, very insensitive. I'm glad you're doing better.

alpacasandwich Sat 01-Jul-17 20:45:47
OP perhaps you could try reading it again? I don't really know how to make it simpler I'm afraid..

You aren't making sense here, though, I'm afraid.

Conflating "straight counselling" (whatever that is) with something that "isn't recommended" (by who??) with psychotherapy (no definition as to what you mean by that).

Be explicit and we can engage.

Its different for everyone. I have GAD, and my parents and siblings have also all suffered from it. I believe it is a hereditary chemical imbalance in our cases. We had an ordinary working class childhood - not a bed of roses, but no abuse or major trauma. I take venlafaxine, and this enables me to go to work, have a social life etc. I tried CBT and found it to be a waste of time - but everyone is different.

"It is horrific to be told by friends that your childhood sexual abuse didn't cause your MH issues because MH issues are 'just chemical' anyway..."

It is equally horrific to be told by doctors that your MH issues can only be treated by counselling for sexual abuse which you know has never taken place.

I understand what you mean OP. I know several people who were given mental health diagnoses with psychotic traits. They had been on heavy prescription drugs for many years. It turned out they had significant trauma going back to childhood that hadn't been treated. Psychotherapy did help them start to manage their lives better - not a cure but significantly better functioning. Until then they had seen a psychiatrist every few months for fifteen minutes who just adjusted their medication, kept them on a level but didn't begin to resolve the root causes of their conditions.
The medical model tends to be seen as the gold standard. The people who run mental health services have a medical rather than a psychotherapy background, and don't generally hold with the biopsychosocial model in my view. However, I agree this is only anecdotal as I haven't worked in psychiatric services, but this has been the experience of people I have come across, who have been treated by psychiatric departments.

I think that some MH issues are inherent, whilst others are as a result of stress, trauma or just the ongoing shitness of life sometimes.

I suffer from anxiety, badly, I am not medicated just now and I was doing ok but now I have had some genuine worries it has triggered it and I'm back to worrying over something and nothing, a sense of impending doom lingers over me pretty much permanently and its really difficult.

Ultimately though, it is imo chemical because stress causes the release of various chemicals in the body and continued release of these DOES cause an imbalance and its hard to find that again.

corythatwas Sat 01-Jul-17 20:50:56
"It is horrific to be told by friends that your childhood sexual abuse didn't cause your MH issues because MH issues are 'just chemical' anyway..."

It is equally horrific to be told by doctors that your MH issues can only be treated by counselling for sexual abuse which you know has never taken place.

You see, I agree with this!! My DH has MH issues that ARE hormonal.

I suppose, what I am trying to do is present the flipside of the coin..where adverse life experiences HAVE resulted in MH issues (in my case CPTSD) and people just say...oh, that's depression..it's chemical...as if years of abuse don't change how you interact with the world...

But actually, I'm really happy I started this clumsily worded and inept thread. Because here I see the other side of it, and I see how frustrating it must be to be told to seek counselling/therapy when that is not the cause of your issues..